Mailing List flyrotary@lancaironline.net Message #56298
From: Al Wick <alwick@juno.com>
Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Sam Hodges NTSB write up
Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 09:21:09 -0700
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
You are describing classic symptoms of vapor lock. I wish you had a Hodges vapor tester and a pressure gage on pump inlet. You'd discover they had the same reading. You were probably within 1 degree F of total loss of power.
 
Vapor tester:
 
The neat thing is, you can actually measure how much vapor safety margin you have. Without flying. Just get that Hodges tester, measure vapor psi of your fuel. Let the fuel sit in the sun, measure temp, repeat test. You will be able to see how temperature affects vapor point. Do this for 100LL and car fuel, see the difference.
Compare Hodges number to your inlet pressure, that's your safety margin.
 
So as you can see vapor lock is extremely simple concept.....except there are lot's of things that change that Hodges value. All of these things make it worse.
Ethanol
inlet filter type
plumbing flow restriction between tank and pump.
oat
plane sitting on tarmac
low fuel level
High power setting and low power setting
High altitude
fuel return location
hot fuel pump
lot to lot variation in fuel
fuel head pressure
 
Like all failures, you can fly for years with a marginal fuel design. Suddenly, you are in unusual circumstances and don't realize it. Typically, high elevation airport, hot day, plane sitting on tarmac for a while.
 
You really can design a fuel sys that is way way lower risk. Not just vapor lock lower risk, but all other factors too. Don't copy a marginal fuel design. Copy one that has a huge safety margin. Don't guess, measure it.
This one has largest safety margin I know of:
 
 
BTW, the pressure regulator is a very simple device. Fuel pushes on one side of valve, spring pushes on other side. Highly unlikely for it to fail as described.
 
-al wick
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Rino
Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2011 3:25 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Sam Hodges NTSB write up

My probllem with fuel starvation.  The fuel pressure regulator is another component to look at.  
 
A few weeks ago, while in flight, the engine started to loose power.  A quick scan showed the fuel pressure going down, it went down to about 7 psi.  I switched fuel pump B on.  the pressure came up to about 27 psi. with the two pumps on and I landed,  I was in the circuit at the time.  While taxiing back to the hangar I turned pump A off and the pressure went down, then I turned pump B off and the pressure went down.   The next day I went back to test the system, I started the engine on one fuel pump, as usual, the fuel pressure was  about 38 psi. as it has been every time before.  Did a few runs on the runway to warm things up, (no takeoff) everything was ok, fuel pressure was normal all the time, on one fuel pump of the other.   Returned to the hangar, ordered a new fuel pressure regulator (a new MAZDA regulator) and installed it a few days later, went flying.  The problem never returned.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2011 12:18 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Sam Hodges NTSB write up

But was it flown as the photos show without shielding for the injectors ??.............
 
Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)
"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold
"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo

From: "bktrub@aol.com" <bktrub@aol.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Monday, August 15, 2011 9:03 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Sam Hodges NTSB write up

Exactly my thoughts. Really a nece installation- but needs heat sheilding above the exhaust manifold.
 
Brian Trubee



-----Original Message-----
From: kenpowell@comcast.net
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Mon, Aug 15, 2011 6:59 pm
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Sam Hodges NTSB write up

The obvious issue is the lack of a heat shield between the injectors and the exhaust.  This can cause the fuel to boil. Beautiful installation other than this.

Ken Powell

From: "Bob Perkinson" <bobperk90658@bellsouth.net>
To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Monday, August 15, 2011 8:27:30 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Sam Hodges NTSB write up

Here are a couple of pictures of Sam's engine installation.  These were taken last year at the Paducah round up.
 
Bob Perkinson
RV-9 13B




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