X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com ([75.180.132.123] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.1) with ESMTP id 5081676 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 04 Aug 2011 09:08:52 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=75.180.132.123; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Return-Path: X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=pLPlkKcK38cN4Cv4YkVeTGGRYpmKez/IrX640LVKWnc= c=1 sm=0 a=jbR6vJOCpEUA:10 a=rPkcCx1H5rrOSfN0dPC7kw==:17 a=arxwEM4EAAAA:8 a=r1ClD_H3AAAA:8 a=7g1VtSJxAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=Fa4cjPIfdKJj4ioaiOYA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=Qa1je4BO31QA:10 a=qZM1-knuwgN0Xq-Q:21 a=vsS20uyzJ5twkcVu:21 a=yMhMjlubAAAA:8 a=on22okXAAAAA:8 a=SKDnX4MU5ispVQcahMIA:9 a=abYR8acm9dV6y5LzkLYA:7 a=at0Q5_2dr5wA:10 a=EzXvWhQp4_cA:10 a=aTnxH5rqqb0A:10 a=rPkcCx1H5rrOSfN0dPC7kw==:117 X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 X-Originating-IP: 174.110.167.5 Received: from [174.110.167.5] ([174.110.167.5:58402] helo=EdPC) by cdptpa-oedge04.mail.rr.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.3.46 r()) with ESMTP id F6/25-20202-0C99A3E4; Thu, 04 Aug 2011 13:08:16 +0000 Message-ID: <27B1680E1FB54965B002552F9CBA6C15@EdPC> From: "Ed Anderson" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Water pump pulley departed in-flight Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2011 09:07:22 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_005B_01CC5285.EBA37D70" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8117.416 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8117.416 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_005B_01CC5285.EBA37D70 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Jeff, Isn't it amazing how much better you landings are - when you are = intensely focused {:>).. Seriously, glad you were where you were when = it happened and got it down safely. =20 While I am not a fan of any flow restriction (as you know), I serious = doubt the additional force required to pump against the restriction = would have been anywhere close to causing the problem. It would appear = - looking at the bolts - that you might have have had the problem of = loose bolts for a period of time. This can be hard to spot on the pump = pulley because as the bolts either start to elongate or back out of = their holes, the pulley would probably have moved with them - in other = words, with a causal visual inspection, you might not notice the = problem. Most of the force on those four bolts should be in shear as the belts = force is transferred to the pulley and through the bolts to the water = pump. So it would really take a large force even to shear those small = bolts - far larger than likely could be transfer by the "V" belt system = - you belt would likely have slipped first. Just my $0.02 assessment. This is the first I've heard of a water pump pulley coming off - but = safety wire should provide a sufficient safety measure to prevent it = from happening again. Ed Edward L. Anderson Anderson Electronic Enterprises LLC 305 Reefton Road Weddington, NC 28104 http://www.andersonee.com http://www.eicommander.com From: Jeff Whaley=20 Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2011 7:59 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Water pump pulley departed in-flight My water pump pulley departed the flange in-flight last night =E2=80=A6 = fortunately I was right overhead on cross wind =E2=80=A6 heard a fwaap = and a buzz thought something went through the exhaust or had lost an = accessory belt; scanned the gauges, water temp and pressure were = building fast, I cut the throttle and headed for 06 =E2=80=A6 checked = the voltmeter which showed +14V so was pretty sure at least one belt was = driving the alternator =E2=80=A6 made my best landing in a long time = then taxied back to the hangar. Probably should have shutdown the engine = right away but didn=E2=80=99t and it boiled over in front of the hangar. = Of course my brother was there to see this bird fly for the first time; = not exactly the demonstration I wanted. Popped the top cowling and = found the water pump pulley departed but still inside the cowling. The = outer belt was turned completely inside-out, which is probably what made = the buzz. =20 There are only four small bolts holding that thing in place =E2=80=A6 = noticed in Haynes pictures this morning that some have four studs and = four bolts =E2=80=A6 guess the studs are for adding a second pulley? = =E2=80=93 but they would also add extra drive surface area. I think I = put those bolts on with standard loctite but am not 100% certain. = Anyway now I=E2=80=99m wondering if my restrictor plate, loading the = pump, may have contributed to more vibration or is this just coincidence = =E2=80=A6=20 Jeff =20 This message, and the documents attached hereto, is intended only for = the addressee and may contain privileged or confidential information. = Any unauthorized disclosure is strictly prohibited. If you have received = this message in error, please notify us immediately so that we may = correct our internal records. Please then delete the original message. = Thank you. -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html ------=_NextPart_000_005B_01CC5285.EBA37D70 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Jeff,
 
Isn't it amazing how much better you landings = are - when=20 you are intensely  focused {:>)..  Seriously, glad you were = where=20 you were  when it happened and got it down safely.  =
 
While I am not a fan of any flow restriction (as = you=20 know), I serious doubt the additional force required to pump against the = restriction would have been anywhere close to causing the problem.  = It=20 would appear - looking at the bolts - that you might have have had = the=20 problem of loose bolts for a period of time.  This can be hard to = spot on=20 the pump pulley because as the bolts either start to elongate or back = out of=20 their holes, the pulley would probably have moved with them - in other = words,=20 with a causal visual inspection, you might not notice the=20 problem.
 
Most of the force on those four bolts should be = in shear=20 as the belts force is transferred to the pulley and through the bolts to = the=20 water pump.  So it would really take a large force even to shear = those=20 small bolts - far larger than likely could be transfer by the "V" belt = system -=20 you belt would likely have slipped first. Just my $0.02 = assessment.
 
This is the first I've heard of a water pump = pulley coming=20 off - but safety wire should provide a sufficient safety measure to = prevent it=20 from happening again.
 
Ed
 
Edward L. Anderson
Anderson Electronic = Enterprises=20 LLC
305 Reefton Road
Weddington, NC 28104
http://www.andersonee.com
http://www.eicommander.com

From: Jeff Whaley
Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2011 7:59 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Water pump pulley departed=20 in-flight

My=20 water pump pulley departed the flange in-flight last night =E2=80=A6 = fortunately I was=20 right overhead on cross wind =E2=80=A6 heard a fwaap and a buzz thought = something went=20 through the exhaust or=20 had lost an accessory belt;=20 scanned the gauges, water temp and pressure were building fast, I cut = the=20 throttle and headed for 06 =E2=80=A6 checked=20 the voltmeter which showed +14V so was pretty sure at least one belt was = driving=20 the alternator =E2=80=A6 made=20 my best landing in a long time then taxied back to the hangar. Probably = should=20 have shutdown the engine right away but didn=E2=80=99t and it boiled = over in front of=20 the hangar.  Of course my brother was there to see this bird fly = for the=20 first time; not exactly the demonstration I wanted.  Popped the top = cowling=20 and found the water pump pulley departed but still inside the=20 cowling.=20 The outer belt was turned completely inside-out, which is probably what = made the=20 buzz.

 

There=20 are only four small bolts holding that thing in place =E2=80=A6 noticed = in Haynes=20 pictures this morning that some have four studs and four bolts =E2=80=A6 = guess the studs=20 are for adding a second pulley? =E2=80=93=20 but they would also add extra drive surface area.  I=20 think I put those bolts on with standard loctite but am not 100% = certain. =20 Anyway now I=E2=80=99m wondering if my restrictor plate, loading the = pump, may have=20 contributed to more vibration or is this just coincidence = =E2=80=A6=20

Jeff

 


This message, and the documents = attached hereto,=20 is intended only for the addressee and may contain privileged or = confidential=20 information. Any unauthorized disclosure is strictly prohibited. If you = have=20 received this message in error, please notify us immediately so that we = may=20 correct our internal records. Please then delete the original message. = Thank=20 you.

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