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Wed, 03 Aug 2011 16:35:58 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.8.112.310352 References: Message-ID: <1312414558.27921.YahooMailNeo@web83913.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2011 16:35:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Kelly Troyer Reply-To: Kelly Troyer Subject: Re: Ross Farnham IVO testing To: Rotary motors in aircraft In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-531828005-1312414558=:27921" --0-531828005-1312414558=:27921 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Pat,=0A=A0 Yes I am well aware of the''Elippse" props and have been followi= ng them closely...........If I ever get this=0Athing off the ground and fly= ing either a fixed pitch or possibly a constant speed version=A0with Paul's= blade=0Aprofile would be my next choice...............=0A=A0=0ABest Regard= s,=0A=0AKelly Troyer=0A"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)=0A"13B ROTARY"_ Engine= =0A"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2=0A"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold=0A"TURBONETICS"_TO= 4E50 Turbo=0A=0AFrom: Pat Panzera =0ATo: = Rotary motors in aircraft =0ASent: Wednesday, = August 3, 2011 6:22 PM=0ASubject: [FlyRotary] Re: Ross Farnham IVO testing= =0A=0A=0ARead these: =0Ahttp://www.eaa.org/experimenter/articles/2009-02_el= ippse.asp=0Ahttp://www.eaa.org/experimenter/articles/2009-09_lipps.asp=0Aht= tp://www.eaa.org/experimenter/articles/2009-07_phantom.asp=0A=0A=0ABut ther= e's a lot to be said about looking cool.=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AOn Wed, Aug 3, 2011 = at 3:57 PM, Kelly Troyer wrote:=0A=0APat,=0A>=A0 Your poin= t is well taken..............In my case I am not taking cooling air from be= hind the prop=0A>and my engine cowl will taper directly to the 16 inch spin= ner plus the entire cowl and spinner=0A>are considered lift producing on th= e Dyke Delta............Plus for me the esthetics's of the cowl=0A>and spin= ner please me (looks cool)................<:)=0A>=0A>Kelly Troyer=0A>"DYKE = DELTA JD2" (Eventually)=0A>"13B ROTARY"_ Engine=0A>"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2=0A>"M= ISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold=0A>"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo=0A>=0A>=0A>Fro= m: Pat Panzera =0A>To: Rotary motors in a= ircraft =0A>Sent: Wednesday, August 3, 2011 3:= 00 PM=0A>Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Ross Farnham IVO testing=0A>=0A>=0A>Every= part of ever aircraft can do one or more of the following. =0A>It can add = weight=0A>It can add drag=0A>It can add lift.=0A>=0A>=0A>Thrust is a form o= f lift, especially when produced by a propeller.=A0=0A>Drag can be on the= =A0airframe=A0or the engine, and is a bad thing.=0A>Weight ultimately cause= s drag.=0A>=0A>=0A>So... if you have to carry around the extra weight of th= e first 16 inches of a 72" prop, why would you want to cover it up? Why not= have at least half of that 16 inches produce forward thrust? ...or at a mi= nimum, help cool the engine?=0A>=0A>=0A>The large spinner is at best a band= -aid, that will cause aerodynamic drag in order to=A0shield=A0the aerodynam= ic drag from a=A0honorably=A0designed=A0propeller, that causes drag on the = engine (shielded=A0or not) and additional weight on the aircraft.=0A>=0A>= =0A>I suppose that if you MUST use the IVOPROP, then this is an effective w= ay to minimize the negative effects of using the prop, but by far, the trad= eoff just isn't worth it.=0A>=0A>=0A>The=A0allure=A0of in-flight=A0adjustab= ility is understandable, but in reality, it's difficult to beat a properly = designed fixed-pitch prop.=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 8:51 P= M, Kelly Troyer wrote:=0A>=0A>Doug, Pat and All,=0A>>=A0= =0A>>=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 When Tracy tested the "IVO" against his "Performanc= e Prop" he gained a lot in takeoff and climb=0A>>performance but lost consi= derable top speed and coolant temp went up.............He attributed=A0both= the=0A>>speed loss and higher coolant temps to the flat hub area of the "I= VO" blades which his spinner did not=0A>>cover (added drag) and essentially= blocked some coolant air from his radiators................This flat area= =0A>>also as has been noted sucks up hp but produces no thrust.............= .=0A>>=A0=0A>>=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 I have a three blade 74 inch electric in-flig= ht adjust "IVO" prop=A0for my "Dyke Delta"=A0that if I live long =0A>>enoug= h to get in the air will have a 16 inch diameter=A0 "Mustang 2" spinner whi= ch will cover most of this=0A>>flat area of the "IVO" blade hub............= .The "IVO" seems to work well in the pushers from all reports=0A>>since the= flat blade hubs are=A0mostly=A0shielded by the engine cowl in these instal= lations............IMHO=A0=0A>>=0A>>Kelly Troyer=0A>>"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Even= tually)=0A>>"13B ROTARY"_ Engine=0A>>"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2=0A>>"MISTRAL"_Backp= late/Oil Manifold=0A>>"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>From: Pat Pa= nzera =0A>>To: Rotary motors in aircraft = =0A>>Sent: Tuesday, August 2, 2011 8:48 PM=0A>= >Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Ross Farnham IVO testing=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>Jim S= mith with his 150 HP, auto-fuel RV-6 is reaching speeds of 200 mph TAS usin= g a fixed-pitch, three-blade wood Elippse propeller. =0A>>=0A>>=0A>>That's = nearly 30 mph more than the Ivo, on the same? power.=A0=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>= On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 6:18 PM, wrote:=0A>>=0A>>http://w= ww.sdsefi.com/rv13.htm=0A>>>=0A>>>Ross did quite a bit of prop testing in t= urbo subie powered RV-6. =A0I've e-mailed him a few times regarding perform= ance, mx issues, etc. and he still thinks it's a good way to go as long as = the Magnum hi pitch blades are used (at least for a/c w/RV type performance= ).=0A>>>Sent on the Sprint=AE Now Network from my BlackBerry=AE=0A>>>--=0A>= >>Homepage: =A0http://www.flyrotary.com/=0A>>>Archive and UnSub: =A0 http:/= /mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html=0A>>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>= =0A>=0A>=0A> --0-531828005-1312414558=:27921 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Pat,
  Yes I am well= aware of the''Elippse" props and have been following them closely.........= ..If I ever get this
thing off the ground= and flying either a fixed pitch or possibly a constant speed version = with Paul's blade
profile would be my next choice...............
 
Best Regards,=
 
Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)
"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil = Manifold
"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo

From:= Pat Panzera <editor.contactmagazine@gmail.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <= flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sen= t: Wednesday, August 3, 2011 6:22 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Ross Farnham IVO testing
Read these:


But there's a lot to be said about looking cool.



On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 3:57 PM, Kelly= Troyer <keltro@att.net><= /SPAN> wrote:
Pat,
  Your point is well taken..............In my case I am not= taking cooling air from behind the prop
and my engine cowl will taper directly to the 16 inch spinner pl= us the entire cowl and spinner
are considered lift producing on the Dyke Delta....= ........Plus for me the esthetics's of= the cowl
and spinner please me (looks cool)................<:)<= /DIV>
 
Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA JD2"= (Eventually)
"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_<= SPAN>Backplate/Oil Manifold
"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo

From: Pat Panzera <editor.contactmagazine@gm= ail.com>
To: Rota= ry motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Ross Farnham IVO testing

Every part of ever aircraft can do one or more of the following.=20
It can add weight
It can add drag
It can add lift.

Thrust is a form of lift, especially when produced by a propeller.&nbs= p;
Drag can be on the airframe or the engine, and is a bad thin= g.
Weight ultimately causes drag.

So... if you have to carry around the extra weight of the first 16 inc= hes of a 72" prop, why would you want to cover it up? Why not have at least= half of that 16 inches produce forward thrust? ...or at a minimum, help co= ol the engine?

The large spinner is at best a band-aid, that will cause aerodynamic d= rag in order to shield the aerodynamic drag from a honorably=  designed propeller, that causes drag on the engine (shielded&nbs= p;or not) and additional weight on the aircraft.

I suppose that if you MUST use the IVOPROP, then this is = an effective way to minimize the negative effects of using the prop, but by= far, the tradeoff just isn't worth it.

The allure of in-flight adjustability is u= nderstandable, but in reality, it's difficult to beat a properly designed f= ixed-pitch prop.


On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 8:51 PM, Kelly Troyer <keltro@att.net> wrote:
Doug, Pat and All,
 
       When Tracy tested the "IVO" against his "Performan= ce Prop" he gained a lot in takeoff and climb
performance but lost considerable top speed and coolant temp wen= t up.............He attributed both the
speed loss and higher coolant temps to= the flat hub area of the "IVO= " blades which his spinner did not
cover (added drag) and essentially blocked some coolant air from= his radiators................This flat area
also as has been noted sucks up hp but produces no thrust.......= .......
 
      I have a three blade 74 inch elec= tric in-flight adjust "<= SPAN>IVO" prop for my "Dyke Delta" that if I live long
enough to get in the air will have a 16 inch diameter  "Mus= tang 2" spinner which will cover most of this
flat area of the "IVO" bl= ade hub.............The "IVO" seems = to work well in the pushers from all reports
since the flat blade hubs are mostly shielded by the engine cowl in these installations...= .........IMHO 
 
Kelly Troyer
"DYKE= DELTA JD2" (Eventually)<= /B>
"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold
"TURBONETICS"_TO4E= 50 Turbo

From: Pat Panzera <editor.contactmagazine@gmail.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>=
Sent: Tuesday, August 2= , 2011 8:48 PM
Subject: = [FlyRotary] Re: Ross Farnham IVO testing

Jim Smith with his 150 HP, auto-fuel R= V-6 is reaching speeds of 200 mph TAS= using a fixed-pitch, three-blade wood Elippse propeller.=20

That's nearly 30 mph more than the = Ivo, on the same? power. 


On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 6:18 PM, <dlomheim@aol.com> wrote:
http://www.sdsefi.com/rv13.htm

Ross did quit= e a bit of prop testing in turbo subie powered RV-6.  I've e-mailed him a few times regarding= performance, mx issues= , etc. and he still thinks it's a good way to go as long as the Magnum hi p= itch blades are used (at least for a/c w/RV type performance).
Sent on t= he Sprint=AE Now Network from my BlackBerry<= /SPAN>=AE
--
Homepage:  http://www= .flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub:   http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/L= ist.html








<= /DIV>
--0-531828005-1312414558=:27921--