X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail-fx0-f42.google.com ([209.85.161.42] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.0) with ESMTPS id 5052697 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Fri, 15 Jul 2011 08:09:29 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.161.42; envelope-from=msteitle@gmail.com Received: by fxe23 with SMTP id 23so2163588fxe.1 for ; Fri, 15 Jul 2011 05:08:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=edAAJMUmwkMMLBgUFe4nN0awvWZBNcP155sbZK8uGCI=; b=QOGIDZG6mSFF+neXkBoSNkaNSeqYC+cFs2JhFCIJLAqVxICZwNj4OgxuRfrLacFVj4 rScSTtCuRmg2EAosGkx6TR7EG5fakDrvbZ1mx+wsBSpQW7zNMXNxXd9J68P5prIJxa4H 4lZ9ulvTDfkcAnth46aekAESVTn08VWOj33bc= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.7.8 with SMTP id b8mr5391148fab.19.1310731732420; Fri, 15 Jul 2011 05:08:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.223.73.208 with HTTP; Fri, 15 Jul 2011 05:08:52 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2011 07:08:52 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Oil Pressure Again From: Mark Steitle To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015174785824e8a0504a81a8375 --0015174785824e8a0504a81a8375 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Chris, Don't overlook the possibility that the woodruf key fell out of the oil pump shaft during assembly and is allowing the oil pump gear to spin on the shaft instead of turning the oil pump. You wouldn't be the first person to have that happen to? You can verify that it is in place with a piece of safety wire. Mark S. On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 4:31 AM, Chris Barber wrote: > William, et al, > > > > Trust me, I would love to think it is a sender but I bought a mechanical > gage the other day with the same results as the EM2. > > > > I will likely pull the engine this weekend (I work late tomorrow). I > already pulled the prop. I will check the pick up. I do have a half inch > extension but because I knew it could be a problem I was focused on getting > a good seal and it is safety wired on, as is the front pressure port. > > > > Since the engine will be off and easier to work with, I will check the > front cover stuff again. Is there a test on testing the oil pump while it > is off the engine? > > > > As Lynn mentioned I will be looking for sparkles in the pan and will open > up the oil filter too. Again, I am speculating that it may be the front > bearings as it was the one part that was not well in spec. I could > be completely wrong. I do not relish the idea of just replacing parts > without cause....the gear with bushing installed I think is $102 from > Mazdatrix....it is always something. > > > > Not wanting to aimlessly replacing parts is the reason that I am once again > asking for thoughts. It seems as if I have eliminated most issues; oil > pressure ports, front one safety wired, chain, bent washer, o-ring/silicon > ring at front cover, safety wired pick up and sealed 1/2 inch extension, > key.....and now the bearings. So, please, share what I may be missing that > may cause this type of low pressure since I will be looking over the next > several days. Also, I did just check the rotor oil seals and rotar parts > when I replaced the apex seals and springs a couple of months ago following > a detonation event. > > > > I could be discouraged but that may go against my Taurus stubborn nature. > Ok, not stubborn , or so I hope, but persistent and becomingeducated. And, as always, the ground is the place to discover this stuff > and why we ground test and test and test. Test it until it doesn't fail, > test it a little more, then fly. > > > > And on a positive not, except for the pesky low oil pressure (yeah, a > really big pesky little problem) the engine has been starting a running > strong and smooth as hell. > > > > Chris > ------------------------------ > *From:* Rotary motors in aircraft [flyrotary@lancaironline.net] on behalf > of William Wilson [fluffysheap@gmail.com] > *Sent:* Friday, July 15, 2011 2:57 AM > > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Oil Pressure Again > > I had a sending unit go bad once and do this. It didn't just read zero > like you expect, it just kept showing less and less pressure. It was about > a decade old at the time. > > On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 5:46 PM, Chris Barber wrote: > >> I hesitate asking about this again, but I am too close to possibly >> flying to drop the ball too much now. I have a drop in oil pressure again. >> It has dropped from the high 60's or so to between 20 psi to 40 psi (20 >> to 30 at lower RPM and only up to around 40+ as I increase power). >> >> >> >> My first thought was that it was the front o-ring and silicone ring in the >> front cover. So, I pulled the front pan and replaced it. I also was able to >> check the front pressure port and the oil pump chain/key/washer etc and all >> was good. >> >> >> >> I am about to have to pull the engine to check the bottom of the engine >> for the oil pick up and rear port (after checking the hoses, but I would >> thinking a blockage, depending on where it is, would increase >> pressure). One of the disadvantages of the Conversion Concepts mount is >> that I pretty much have to pull the engine to check the bottom end. >> >> >> >> My question is, other than the mentioned items, what else could cause this >> sort of drop. I have hooked up a mechanical pressure gage (instead of >> the RWS EM2). My concern is that it may be the front bearing as it was >> the only part I recall being closer to being out of spec. I hate the idea >> of having to tear down the engine again to replace this part especiallysince the engine is running all but perfectly and I was doing squawks >> preparing for my DAR inspection before this issue crept up. >> >> >> >> Also, even though I can't think of a way, is there any way to replace the >> front stationary gear/bearing without cracking the engine...just had to >> ask as I am not really liking the idea of cracking open the engine again, >> even though I am getting a bit too good at it....but apparently not well >> enough to make it actually work right. >> >> >> >> As opposed to mucking around with red hearings and wild goose chases, I >> figured I would just ask again. And yes, I have been reviewing the archivesalready. >> >> >> >> >> TIA >> >> >> >> Thanks >> >> >> >> Chris Barber >> >> Houston. >> > > --0015174785824e8a0504a81a8375 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Chris,=A0

Don't overlook the possibility that the wo= odruf key fell out of the oil pump shaft during assembly and is allowing th= e oil pump gear to spin on the shaft instead of turning the oil pump. =A0Yo= u wouldn't be the first person to have that happen to? =A0You can verif= y that it is in place with a piece of safety wire.

Mark S. =A0

On Fri, J= ul 15, 2011 at 4:31 AM, Chris Barber <cbarber@texasattorney.net> wrote= :

William, et al,

=A0

Trust me, I would love to think it is a sender but I bought a mechanical= gage the other day with the same results as the EM2.=A0

=A0

I will likely pull the engine this weekend (I work late tomorrow).=A0 I = already pulled the prop.=A0 I will check the pick up.=A0 I do have a half i= nch extension but because I knew it could be a problem I was focused on get= ting a good seal and it is safety wired on, as is the front pressure port.=A0

=A0

Since the engine will be off and easier to work with, I will check the f= ront cover stuff again.=A0 Is there a test on testing the oil pump while it= is off the engine?

=A0

As Lynn mentioned I will be looking for sparkles in the pan and will ope= n up the oil filter too.=A0 Again, I am speculating that it may be the fron= t bearings as it was the one part that was not well in spec.=A0 I could be= =A0completely=A0wrong.=A0 I do not relish the idea of just replacing parts without cause....the gear=A0with bushing = installed I think is=A0$102 from Mazdatrix....it is always so= mething.

=A0

Not wanting to aimlessly replacing parts is the reason that I am once ag= ain asking for thoughts.=A0 It seems as if I have=A0eliminated most = issues; oil pressure ports, front one safety wired, chain, bent washer, o-r= ing/silicon ring at front cover, safety wired pick up and sealed 1/2 inch extension, key.....and now the bearings.= =A0 So, please,=A0share what I may be missing that may cause this type of= =A0low pressure=A0since I will be looking over the next several days.=A0 Al= so,=A0I did=A0just=A0check the rotor oil seals=A0and=A0rotar parts when I replaced the apex seals and springs a couple of months ago fo= llowing a detonation event.

=A0

I could be discouraged but that may go=A0against my=A0Taurus=A0stubborn nature.=A0 Ok, not stubborn=A0<g>, or so I hope,= but=A0persistent and=A0becoming educated.=A0=A0And, as=A0alw= ays, the=A0ground is the place to discover this stuff and why we ground test and test and test.=A0 Test it until it doesn't=A0fail, = test it a little more, then fly.

=A0

And on a positive not, except for the pesky low oil pressure (yeah, a re= ally big pesky little problem) the engine has been starting a running stron= g and smooth as hell.

=A0

Chris=A0


From: Rotary motors in aircraft [flyrotary@lancaironline.net] on beha= lf of William Wilson [fluffysheap@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, July 15, 2011 2:57 AM

To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Oil Pressure Again

I had a sending unit go bad once and do this.=A0 It didn't just re= ad zero like you expect, it just kept showing less and less pressure.=A0 It= was about a decade old at the time.

On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 5:46 PM, Chris Barber <cbarber@= texasattorney.net> wrote:

I hesitate asking about this again, but I am too close to possibly flyin= g to drop the ball too much now.=A0 I have a drop in oil pressure again.=A0= It has dropped from the high=A060's or so to betw= een 20 psi to 40 psi (20 to 30 at lower RPM and only up to around 40+ as I increase power).

=A0

My first thought was that it was the front o-ring and silicone ring in t= he front cover. So, I pulled the front pan and replaced it.=A0 I also was a= ble to check the front pressure port and the oil pump chain/key/washer etc = and all was good.

=A0

I am about to have to pull the engine to check the bottom of the engine = for the oil pick up and rear port (after checking the hoses, but I=A0would<= a>=A0thinking a blockage, depending on where it is, would increa= se pressure).=A0 One of the disadvantages of the Conversion Concepts mount is that I pretty much have to pull the en= gine to check the bottom end.

=A0

My question is, other than the mentioned items, what else could cause th= is sort of drop.=A0 I have hooked up a=A0mechanical pressure = gage (instead of the=A0RWS EM2).= =A0 My concern is that it may be the front bearing as it was the only part I recall being closer to being out of spec= .=A0 I hate the idea of having to tear down the engine again to replace thi= s part=A0especially since the engine is running all but perfe= ctly and I was doing squawks preparing for my DAR inspection before this issue=A0crept up.

=A0

Also, even though I can't think of a way, is there any way to replac= e the front=A0stationary gear/bearing without cracking the en= gine...just had to ask as I am not really liking the idea of cracking open = the engine again, even though I am getting a bit too good at it....but=A0apparently not well enough to = make it actually work right.

=A0

As=A0opposed to mucking around with red hearings and wild = goose chases, I figured I would just ask again.=A0 And yes, I have been rev= iewing the=A0archives already.

=A0

TIA

=A0

Thanks

=A0

Chris Barber

Houston.



--0015174785824e8a0504a81a8375--