X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from qmta06.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.56] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.0) with ESMTP id 5049733 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 12 Jul 2011 16:15:59 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=76.96.30.56; envelope-from=kenpowell@comcast.net Received: from omta24.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.92]) by qmta06.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id 77ip1h0071zF43QA68FMR4; Tue, 12 Jul 2011 20:15:21 +0000 Received: from sz0159.ev.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.26.227]) by omta24.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id 78F91h00G4tzcqL8k8F9p8; Tue, 12 Jul 2011 20:15:09 +0000 Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2011 20:15:20 +0000 (UTC) From: kenpowell@comcast.net To: Rotary motors in aircraft Message-ID: <2097172579.70606.1310501720369.JavaMail.root@sz0159a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Fwd: RD-1B failure MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_70605_1076358180.1310501720368" X-Originating-IP: [76.125.123.2] X-Mailer: Zimbra 6.0.10_GA_2704 (ZimbraWebClient - IE7 (Win)/6.0.10_GA_2697) ------=_Part_70605_1076358180.1310501720368 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yamabond, Hondabond or Threebond 1194 (all the same product) would work gre= at for this application.=C2=A0 It is used to seal gasketless motorcycles ca= ses as well as any metal to metal surface where the temps are relatively lo= w.=C2=A0 From the Threebond Website:=20 ThreeBond 1194 is a semidrying liquid gasket whose major component is speci= al synthetic rubber. After it is applied and dried, it will form a rubber-l= ike elastic body. Since it excels in padding property, it shows a high seal= ing effect on bonded surfaces that have poor flatness and large clearance. = In addition, it has excellent resistance to water, oil and gasoline.=20 Features =C2=B7 =09High padding property=20 It shows an excellent sealing effect not only on normal bonded surfaces, bu= t also on bonded surfaces with large clearance.=20 =C2=B7 =09Excellent resistance to vibration and impact=20 After applied and dried, it will form a rubber-like elastic body and exhibi= t excellent resistance to vibration and impact.=20 =C2=B7 =09Excellent resistance to high and low temperatures=20 It keeps stable rubber elasticity in a wide temperature range from -40=C2= =B0C to 150=C2=B0C.=20 =C2=B7 =09Excellent resistance to water and oil=20 =C2=B7 =09Effective in preventing leak from threaded portions=20 Uses =C2=B7 =09Sealing of flange surfaces and threaded portions=20 =C2=B7 =09Applicable to sealing of flange surfaces having large clearance= =20 Properties Properties=20 Item =09Unit =09Property =09Test method =09Remarks=20 Appearance =09- =09Gray =093TS-201-02 =09=C2=A0=20 Viscosity =09Pa=C2=B7s =099.5 =093TS-210-02 =0925=C2=B0C/BH-type, No.5-20 r= pm=20 Specific gravity =09- =091.25 =093TS-213-02 =0925=C2=B0C=20 Heating residue =09% =0958.0 =093TS-217-01 =09=C2=A0=20 Tack-free time =09min =0912 =093TS-219-04 =09=C2=A0=20 Solvent =09- =09Xylene =09- =09=C2=A0=20 * These data are not our quality assurance values, but representative value= s.=20 Physical properties after curing=20 Physical properties after curing=20 Item =09Unit =09Physical property after curing =09Test method=20 Tensile strength =09MPa =090.12 =093TS-320-01=20 Elongation =09% =09900 - 1000 =093TS-320-01=20 Hardness =09A =0925 =093TS-215-01=20 Note) Curing conditions: At 25=C2=B0C for 2 weeks=20 Ken Powell%0D%0ABryant%2C Arkansas%0D%0A501-847-4721%0D%0A=20 ----- Original Message ----- From: bktrub@aol.com=20 To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" =20 Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2011 12:22:50 AM=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Fwd: RD-1B failure=20 Ask =C2=A0Tracy about using Hylomar as a sealant.=20 =C2=A0=20 Brian Trubee=20 -----Original Message-----=20 From: David Leonard =20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft =20 Sent: Mon, Jul 11, 2011 10:15 pm=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Fwd: RD-1B failure=20 I tried to get into the gear box today, but ran into an impasse trying to g= et the bell housing off the adapter plate...=C2=A0 I think I am done using = RTV there.=C2=A0 Will probably use a non-adhesive sealant - as long as Trac= y says we don't need the adhesion from the RTV.=20 I did find another issue.=C2=A0 In addition to a likely fin failure inside = the gear box, the flex plate is coming apart.=C2=A0 I found a piece of it i= n my cowl and it is tearing in several places. Still seems to be tracking O= K.=20 You know, I wouldn't mind the weight penalty of using the manual flywheel.= =C2=A0 Would have to drill some holes to attach Tracy's torque plate, but i= t should otherwise be an improvement for idle and pulse dampening.=C2=A0 Bu= t maybe gyroscopic loads would be unacceptably high?=C2=A0 Maybe have to mo= ve and/or replace the starter.=20 Will try to get some pictures tomorrow.=20 --=20 David Leonard=20 Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY=20 http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net=20 http://RotaryRoster.net=20 On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 11:51 AM, Mark Steitle < msteitle@gmail.com > wrote= :=20 Al,=20 =C2=A0=20 My gearbox failure was approx. 1-1/2 years ago.=C2=A0 I attributed=C2=A0the= failure=C2=A0to a very rough running engine which=C2=A0was cured=C2=A0with= a mod to the EC-2 and CAS.=C2=A0 I was lucky that it happened on the groun= d. =C2=A0(Ed can keep his "King of Dead Stick Landings" plaque, thank you!)= =C2=A0=20 =C2=A0=20 If I am correct, Tracy installed a 3/8" pin in my input shaft.=C2=A0=C2=A0N= o failures since.=C2=A0 I now have approx. 200 hours on the engine/gearbox.= =20 =C2=A0=20 Mark=20 On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 10:23 AM, David Leonard < wdleonard@gmail.com > wro= te:=20 From: Al Gietzen < ALVentures@cox.net >=20 Date: Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 8:17 AM=20 Subject: RD-1B failure=20 To: Dave Leonard < wdleonard@gmail.com >=20 Hi; Dave ,=20 =C2=A0=20 I=E2=80=99m very thankful to hear that this occurred after landing.=20 =C2=A0=20 I=E2=80=99ve been unable to post on the rotary engine list for months due t= o blocking by Cox.=C2=A0 Perhaps you=E2=80=99d post this message on my beha= lf:=20 =C2=A0=20 ---The shear pin on the sun gear is the most likely candidate since it was = sized for a normally aspirated 13B. =C2=A0 After the failure on Marks 20B, = I have changed the pin diameter=20 =C2=A0=20 Tracy ;=20 =C2=A0=20 Doesn=E2=80=99t this suggest that all 20B and 13B turbo should be upgraded = to the larger pin? When was the failure on Mark=E2=80=99s 20B?=20 =C2=A0=20 Al=20 ---=C2=A0=20 ------=_Part_70605_1076358180.1310501720368 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <= div style=3D'font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt; color: #000000'>

= Yamabond, Hondabond or Threebond 1194 (all the same product) would work gre= at for this application.  It is used to seal gasketless motorcycles ca= ses as well as any metal to metal surface where the temps are relatively lo= w.  From the Threebond Website:

 

ThreeBond 1194 is a semidrying liquid gasket wh= ose major component is special synthetic rubber. After it is applied and dr= ied, it will form a rubber-like elastic body. Since it excels in padding pr= operty, it shows a high sealing effect on bonded surfaces that have poor fl= atness and large clearance. In addition, it has excellent resistance to wat= er, oil and gasoline.
3DFeatures
3D""
=C2=B7 High padding property
It shows an excellent seali= ng effect not only on normal bonded surfaces, but also on bonded surfaces w= ith large clearance.
=C2=B7 Excellent resistance to vibration and impact
Afte= r applied and dried, it will form a rubber-like elastic body and exhibit ex= cellent resistance to vibration and impact.
=C2=B7 Excellent resistance to high and low temperaturesIt keeps stable rubber elasticity in a wide temperature range from -40=C2= =B0C to 150=C2=B0C.
=C2=B7 Excellent resistance to water and oil
=C2=B7 Effective in preventing leak from threaded portions<= /SPAN>

3DUses
3D""
=C2=B7 Sealing of flange surfaces and threaded portions
=C2=B7 Applicable to sealing of flange surfaces having larg= e clearance

3DProperties
3D""
Properties
3D""
Item Unit Property Test method Remarks
Appearance - Gray 3TS-201-02  
Viscosity Pa=C2=B7s 9.5 3TS-210-02 25=C2=B0C/BH-type, No.5-20 rpm
Specific gravity - 1.25 3TS-213-02 25=C2=B0C
Heating residue % 58.0 3TS-217-01  
Tack-free time min 12 3TS-219-04  
Solvent - Xylene -  
3D""
* These data are not our quality assurance values, b= ut representative values.

Physical properties after curing
3D""
Physical properties after curing
3D""
Item Unit Physical property after curing Test method
Tensile strength MPa 0.12 3TS-320-01
Elongation % 900 - 1000 3TS-320-01
Hardness A 25 3TS-215-01
3D""
Note) Curing conditions: At 25=C2=B0C for 2 weeks


Ken Powell%0D%0ABryant%2C Arkansas%0D%0A501-847-4721%0D%0A

From: bktrub@aol.com
To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" &l= t;flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2011 12= :22:50 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Fwd: RD-1B failure

=
Ask  Tracy about using Hylomar as a sealant.
 
Brian Trubee



= -----Original Message-----
From: David Leonard <wdleonard@gmail.com&g= t;
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
= Sent: Mon, Jul 11, 2011 10:15 pm
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Fwd: RD-1B fai= lure

I tried to get = into the gear box today, but ran into an impasse trying to get the bell hou= sing off the adapter plate...  I think I am done using RTV there. = ; Will probably use a non-adhesive sealant - as long as Tracy says we don't= need the adhesion from the RTV.

I did find another issue.  In = addition to a likely fin failure inside the gear box, the flex plate is com= ing apart.  I found a piece of it in my cowl and it is tearing in seve= ral places. Still seems to be tracking OK.

You know, I wouldn't mind= the weight penalty of using the manual flywheel.  Would have to drill= some holes to attach Tracy's torque plate, but it should otherwise be an i= mprovement for idle and pulse dampening.  But maybe gyroscopic loads w= ould be unacceptably high?  Maybe have to move and/or replace the star= ter.

Will try to get some pictures tomorrow.

--
David Leo= nard

Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY
http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net
http://RotaryRoster.net

On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 11:51 AM, Mark Steitle <mste= itle@gmail.com> wrote:
Al,
 
My gearbox failure was approx. 1-1/2 years ago.  I attributed&nbs= p;the failure to a very rough running engine which was cured = ;with a mod to the EC-2 and CAS.  I was lucky that it happened on the = ground.  (Ed can keep his "King of Dead Stick Landings" plaque, thank = you!) 
 
If I am correct, Tracy installed a 3/8" pin in my input shaft. &n= bsp;No failures since.  I now have approx. 200 hours on the engine/gea= rbox.
 
Mark
On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 10:23 AM, David Leonard <wd= leonard@gmail.com> wrote:
From: Al Gietzen <= SPAN dir=3Dltr><AL= Ventures@cox.net>
Date: Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 8:17 AM
Su= bject: RD-1B failure
To: Dave Leonard <wdleonard@gmail.com>


Hi; Dave,
 
I=E2=80=99m very thankful to hear that this= occurred after landing.
 
I=E2=80=99ve been unable to post on the rot= ary engine list for months due to blocking by Cox.  Perhaps you=E2=80= =99d post this message on my behalf:
 
---The shear pin on the sun gear is the most likely ca= ndidate since it was sized for a normally aspirated 13B.   After the f= ailure on Marks 20B, I have changed the pin diameter
 
Tracy;
 
Doesn=E2=80=99t t= his suggest that all 20B and 13B turbo should be upgraded to the larger pin= ? When was the failure on Mark=E2=80=99s 20B?
 
Al<= /DIV>
--- <= /FONT>




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