X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from imr-da06.mx.aol.com ([205.188.169.203] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.0) with ESMTP id 5029465 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 22 Jun 2011 22:54:06 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=205.188.169.203; envelope-from=Bktrub@aol.com Received: from imo-ma02.mx.aol.com (imo-ma02.mx.aol.com [64.12.78.137]) by imr-da06.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id p5N2rU9X024308 for ; Wed, 22 Jun 2011 22:53:30 -0400 Received: from Bktrub@aol.com by imo-ma02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.9.) id q.115b.24cb33c (44223) for ; Wed, 22 Jun 2011 22:53:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtprly-md01.mx.aol.com (smtprly-md01.mx.aol.com [64.12.143.154]) by cia-dd08.mx.aol.com (v129.10) with ESMTP id MAILCIADD081-d4144e02aaa4187; Wed, 22 Jun 2011 22:53:25 -0400 Received: from webmail-d021 (webmail-d021.sim.aol.com [205.188.181.23]) by smtprly-md01.mx.aol.com (v129.10) with ESMTP id MAILSMTPRLYMD012-d4144e02aaa4187; Wed, 22 Jun 2011 22:53:24 -0400 References: To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: This has got to stop Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 22:53:24 -0400 X-AOL-IP: 50.46.146.205 In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 From: bktrub@aol.com X-MB-Message-Type: User Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8CDFF67DAD41E8C_170C_CBAE9_webmail-d021.sysops.aol.com" X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 33867-STANDARD Received: from 50.46.146.205 by webmail-d021.sysops.aol.com (205.188.181.23) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Wed, 22 Jun 2011 22:53:24 -0400 Message-Id: <8CDFF67DAC83789-170C-5DBE6@webmail-d021.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-SENDER: Bktrub@aol.com ----------MB_8CDFF67DAD41E8C_170C_CBAE9_webmail-d021.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Thanks. That's one more item to be checked and ruled out. So basically you= are putting a 18-20 K resister in line on the CAS circuit? Brian Trubee -----Original Message----- From: Bobby J. Hughes To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Wed, Jun 22, 2011 8:13 pm Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: This has got to stop Brian, =20 Dennis H and my self implemented an external circuit that eliminated this= very symptom. BUT our problems were with the Renesis CAS and older EC2 mo= ds. The circuit limited the CAS voltage to around 8V-peak to peak. At high= rpm before the 18k-20k resister the EC2 would see 30V peak to peak and wo= uld stumble. The CAS voltage goes up with rpm. Not likely this is your pro= blem but it might be worth testing if all other tests fail to identify the= issue. Dennis and I were able to trigger the event on the ground so safe= testing was not an issue.=20 =20 =20 =20 Bobby N416AS =20 =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Be= half Of bktrub@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 8:51 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: This has got to stop =20 I am using the stock 13 BREW sensors- two sensors and trigger wheel. I am= using four chevy LS1 coils. =20 Brian Trubee =20 -----Original Message----- From: Kelly Troyer To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Tue, Jun 21, 2011 7:30 am Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: This has got to stop Brian, You made no mention of the type of sensors and coils you are using.....= ....Are you=20 using the 13BREW two sensor (pickups) and trigger-wheel system with stock= coils or "GM" coils??............... =20 Kelly Troyer "DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually) "13B ROTARY"_ Engine "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 "MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold "TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo =20 =20 From: Mark Steitle To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Tue, June 21, 2011 7:10:36 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: This has got to stop Brian, =20 =20 Your symptoms are exactly what I fought with for over a year with my 20B.= The problem turned out to be the CAS. I had thought it would be a big= improvement to go with the Renesis type CAS, so I had Tracy convert my EC= -2 to work with the crank mount CAS, and I added a trigger wheel and brack= et to the front of my engine. Depending on the sensor gap and the phase= of the moon, it would run great up to the upper 5000's, then it would sta= rt mis-firing badly. No amount of tuning would correct the problem. This= may not be your exact scenario, but I hope it will help you determine if= it is ignition or fuel. My guess is ignition. =20 =20 Oh, to fix my problem, I had Tracy convert my EC-2 back to work with the= old "distributor" style CAS, reinstalled the old CAS, and that corrected= the probmel. It now runs great up to > 70000 rpm.=20 =20 Mark=20 =20 On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 11:19 PM, wrote: =20 I'm going to ground my airplane until I get to the bottom of this. I can= tune it on the ground and it will run just fine all the way from idle to= full throttle. I get about 5300 rpm at full throttle at 29 in hg. MP. I= have 12 hours in the air so far but can't get past this issue. Other than= this, the plane is an absolute joy.=20 =20 When I get off the ground, when I go through around 5400 RPM, I start to= get stumbling and engine roughness. At this RPM I am about 18 inches MP.= Just below this point, I am making about 50% power and the engine will ru= n smoothly.=20 =20 I went to another airport and had a lot of roughness on takeoff, but I am= used to it and so continued on my way to my home airport. When I got back= I found out that someone at the other airport wanted to report me to FSDO= because he thought my engine was going to blow up, but he didn't get my= tail number.=20 =20 So, I thought I had it sorted out before I flew today, but it's back to th= e drawing board. I've tried both leaning and enriching the mixture at all= throttle settings, but to no avail. At and above 5400 rpm I start getting= all sorts of roughness so I think that it has to be an ignition issue. My= injector wiring is separated from my coil wiring, but could I be getting= inductance between the different coil wiring? =20 I have a 93 13 BREW normally aspirated, 2.85 RWS redrive, EM2, EC2, 88x 74= CAtto Prop. This is getting to be really frustrating. It's got to be some= thing simple that I'm overlooking. I don't know anyone with an ocilliscope= , and have never used one.=20 =20 Brian Trubee =20 =20 -- omepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ rchive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.= html ----------MB_8CDFF67DAD41E8C_170C_CBAE9_webmail-d021.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
Thanks. That's one more item to be checked and ruled out. So basicall= y you are putting a 18-20 K resister in line on the CAS circuit?
 
 
 
Brian Trubee



-----Original Message-----
From: Bobby J. Hughes <bhughes@qnsi.net>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Wed, Jun 22, 2011 8:13 pm
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: This has got to stop

Brian,
 
Dennis H and my sel= f implemented an external circuit that eliminated this very symptom. BUT our problems were with the= Renesis CAS and older EC2 mods. The circuit limited the CAS voltage to ar= ound 8V-peak to peak. At high rpm before the 18k-20k resister the EC2 woul= d see 30V peak to peak and would stumble. The CAS voltage goes up with rpm= . Not likely this is your problem but it might be worth testing if all oth= er tests fail to identify the issue.  Dennis and I were able to trigg= er the event on the ground so safe testing was not an issue.
 
 
 
Bobby=
N416AS
 
 
From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of b= ktrub@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 20= 11 8:51 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircr= aft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re:= This has got to stop
 
I am using the st= ock 13 BREW sensors- two sensors and trigger wheel. I am using four chevy= LS1 coils.
 
Brian Trubee
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Kelly Troyer <keltro@att.net>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Tue, Jun 21, 2011 7:30 am
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: This has got to stop
Brian,
   You= made no mention of the type of sensors and coils you are using.= ........Are you
using the 13BREW= two sensor (pickups) and trigger-wheel system with stock coils
or "GM" coils??..= .............
  
Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA= JD2" (Eventually)"13B ROTARY"_ Eng= ine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold
"TURBONETICS"_TO4= E50 Turbo
 
 
From:<= SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> Mark St= eitle <msteitle@gmail.com>=
To: Rotary motors in aircr= aft <flyrotary@lancairon= line.net>
Sent: Tue, June 21, 2011= 7:10:36 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re:= This has got to stop

Brian, 
 
Your symptoms are exactly= what I fought with for over a year with my 20B.  The problem turned= out to be the CAS.  I had thought it would be a big improvement to= go with the Renesis type CAS, so I had Tracy convert my EC-2 to work with= the crank mount CAS, and I added a trigger wheel and bracket to the front= of my engine.  Depending on the sensor gap and the phase of the moon= , it would run great up to the upper 5000's, then it would start mis-firin= g badly.  No amount of tuning would correct the problem.  This= may not be your exact scenario, but I hope it will help you determine if= it is ignition or fuel.  My guess is ignition.  <= /div>
 
Oh, to fix my problem, I= had Tracy convert my EC-2 back to work with the old "distributor" style= CAS, reinstalled the old CAS, and that corrected the probmel.  It no= w runs great up to > 70000 rpm. 
 
Mark <= /div>
 
On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at= 11:19 PM, <bktrub@aol.com> wr= ote:
 
I'm going to ground my ai= rplane until I get to the bottom of this. I can tune it on the ground and= it will run just fine all the way from idle to full throttle. I get about= 5300 rpm at full throttle at 29 in hg. MP. I have 12 hours in the air so= far but can't get past this issue. Other than this, the plane is an absol= ute joy.
 
When  I get off the= ground, when I go through around 5400 RPM, I start to get stumbling and= engine roughness. At this RPM I am about 18 inches MP. Just below this po= int, I am making about 50% power and the engine will run smoothly. =
 
I went to another airport= and had a lot of roughness on takeoff, but I am used to it and so continu= ed on my way to my home airport. When I got back I found out that someone= at the other airport wanted to report me to FSDO because he thought my en= gine was going to blow up, but he didn't get my tail number.
 
So, I thought I had it so= rted out before I flew today, but it's back to the drawing board. I've tri= ed both leaning and enriching the mixture at all throttle settings, but to= no avail. At and above 5400 rpm I start getting all sorts of roughness so= I think that it has to be an ignition issue. My injector wiring is separa= ted from my coil wiring, but could I be getting inductance between the dif= ferent coil wiring?
 
I have a 93 13 BREW norma= lly aspirated, 2.85 RWS redrive, EM2, EC2, 88x 74 CAtto Prop. This is gett= ing to be really frustrating. It's got to be something simple that I'm ove= rlooking. I don't know anyone with an ocilliscope, and have never used one= .
 
Brian Trubee
 
 
----------MB_8CDFF67DAD41E8C_170C_CBAE9_webmail-d021.sysops.aol.com--