X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from qmta14.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.27.212] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4c3j) with ESMTP id 4962854 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sat, 30 Apr 2011 17:04:47 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=76.96.27.212; envelope-from=wschertz@comcast.net Received: from omta18.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.74]) by qmta14.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id dwuW1g0021bwxycAEx4EJw; Sat, 30 Apr 2011 21:04:14 +0000 Received: from WschertzPC ([71.57.77.95]) by omta18.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id dx481g01623NHuF8ex4CKH; Sat, 30 Apr 2011 21:04:13 +0000 Message-ID: From: "Bill Schertz" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Intakes old and new Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2011 16:04:05 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0064_01CC0750.3B5B5080" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 15.4.3508.1109 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V15.4.3508.1109 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0064_01CC0750.3B5B5080 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ed, Could you supply the name/part# for the resin and silicon product you = used? Also dimensions of the various tubes/lengths, diameters, etc. I am = not getting the power I want from my intake system. Bill Schertz KIS Cruiser #4045 N343BS Phase one testing Completed From: Ed Anderson=20 Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2011 10:09 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Intakes old and new No, Bill, they do not have bell mounths, because the primary and = secondary runners are essentially one piece (like an upside down "U") = inside the plastic housing. Here are a couple of photos of the process. Basically, I cut a = half-moon shape out of a piece of 3 " high density foam. I then close = up the sides with other pieces of foam including cutting out any thing = needed like the flat portion of the front for mounting the Throttle = body. I then form two silicon cores by pouring the silicon core two = part liquid mix into some "U" shaped aluminum tubing of the right size. = I extract the silicon cores from their tubes and suspend them upside = down in the 3" void, mix up a two part polyurethane casting resin - pour = it in and wait 15 minutes. Then remove the plastic casting which has = the tunnels and openings for the four aluminum runners which get = inserted through a 3/8" aluminum plate into the plastic casting. This = plate is held to the plastic (or vice versa) through bolts through the = plate into inserts placed in the plastic (I place the inserts after the = casting by drilling holes and pressing them in - the right kind or = citical). =20 I use a hole saw to cut through the front of the casting the dia of my = 65 mm throttle body until I just interesect the tunnels cast into the = plastic. Then I hand sand/die grind the intersection of the TB hole = with the runner tunnels to a smooth interface between the two. Drill = holes and place inserts for the throttle body and your are done. It takes me an hour or so now to make a mold, cast the resin. About = another couple of hours to cut the 3/8' plate drill the holes for the = tubes and mounting bolts, etc. Then you have to braze the aluminum = tubes to the plate and that's it for the top half of the manifold. The = bottom half (I use telescoping tubes for ease of construction and = tuning) has slightly smaller tubes to fit up into the tubes brazed to = the 3/8" mounting plate.=20 I cut off the heavy cast aluminum runners from an 88 or earlier N/A = lower manifold, mill out the holds to the dia of the lower tubes and = then assembly the top and bottom structure before brazing in the tubes = to the aluminum casting of the lower manifold. When you get it all done you have the assembly I showed in the previous = e mail photograph Hope that helps explain it a bit Ed=20 From: Bill Bradburry=20 Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2011 10:44 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Intakes old and new Ed, Do the intake runners have bell mouths at the top inside the plastic = plenum? If so, how did you construct them? =20 Bill B =20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On = Behalf Of Ed Anderson Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2011 9:49 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Intakes old and new =20 Here is the induction system set up I first flew with Phtos MVC-007F = JPG). 4 injectors into a TWM dual throat Webber Throttle body (2" dia = throats) into a two into four manifold. The engine started easily and = operated fine - with the exception it was low on power. Top speed was = 185 MPH TAS. =20 =20 The apparently problem was that while this set up did well for the = rotary racing crowd when theirengines hit 9000 rpm - it sucked (but not = very well) at the lower rpms like 5000. So I swap it out for my current = design using an 65mm dia mustang throttle body and smaller diameter = runners and immedately picked up 10 MPH top airspeed and 400 ft/min = improvement in Rate of climb. =20 It was the beginning of my understanding that what works well for one = environment and set of operating conditions may provide lousy results = under different circumstances. The other two photos show the intake = that produced the best results for my installation and which has now = been on the aircraft for over 6 years, top speed achieved with this = intake was 196 MPH TAS with the old 2.17:1 and 68x72 prop. Same intake = with the 2:85:1 and 74x88 prop topped out at 200 MPH TAS. =20 Ed Edward L. Anderson Anderson Electronic Enterprises LLC 305 Reefton Road Weddington, NC 28104 http://www.andersonee.com http://www.eicommander.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html ------=_NextPart_000_0064_01CC0750.3B5B5080 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Ed,
Could you supply the name/part# for the resin and silicon product = you used?=20 Also dimensions of the various tubes/lengths, diameters, etc. I am not = getting=20 the power I want from my intake system.
 
Bill=20 Schertz
KIS Cruiser #4045
N343BS
Phase one testing = Completed
 
Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2011 10:09 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Intakes old and = new
 
No, Bill, they do not have bell mounths,  = because the=20 primary and secondary runners are essentially one piece (like an upside = down=20 "U") inside the plastic housing.
 
Here are a couple of photos of the = process. =20 Basically, I cut a half-moon shape out of a piece of 3 " high density=20 foam.  I then close up the sides with other pieces of foam = including=20 cutting out any thing needed like the flat portion of the front for = mounting the=20 Throttle body.  I then form two silicon cores by  pouring the = silicon=20 core two part liquid mix into some "U" shaped aluminum tubing of the = right=20 size.  I extract the silicon cores from their tubes and suspend = them upside=20 down in the 3" void, mix up a two part polyurethane casting resin - pour = it in=20 and wait 15 minutes.  Then remove the plastic casting which has the = tunnels=20 and openings for the four aluminum runners which get inserted through a = 3/8"=20 aluminum plate into the plastic casting.  This plate is held to the = plastic=20 (or vice versa) through bolts through the plate into inserts placed in = the=20 plastic (I place the inserts after the casting by drilling holes and = pressing=20 them in - the right kind or citical). 
 
I use a hole saw to cut through the front of the = casting=20 the dia of my 65 mm throttle body until I just interesect the tunnels = cast into=20 the plastic.  Then I hand sand/die grind the intersection of the TB = hole=20 with the runner tunnels to a smooth interface between the two.  = Drill holes=20 and place inserts for the throttle body and your are done.
 
It takes me an hour or so now to make a mold, = cast the=20 resin.  About another couple of hours to cut the 3/8' plate drill = the holes=20 for the tubes and mounting bolts, etc.  Then you have to braze the = aluminum=20 tubes to the plate and that's it for the top half of the manifold.  = The=20 bottom half  (I use telescoping tubes for ease of construction and = tuning)=20 has slightly smaller tubes to fit up into the tubes brazed to the 3/8" = mounting=20 plate.
 
I cut off the heavy cast aluminum runners from = an 88 or=20 earlier N/A lower manifold, mill out the holds to the dia of the lower = tubes and=20 then assembly the top and bottom structure before brazing in the tubes = to the=20 aluminum casting of the lower manifold.
 
When you get it all done you have the assembly I = showed in=20 the previous e mail photograph
 
Hope that helps explain it a = bit
 
 
Ed=20
 
Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2011 10:44 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Intakes old and = new
 

Ed,

Do the intake = runners=20 have bell mouths at the top inside the plastic plenum?   If = so, how=20 did you construct them?

 

Bill=20 B

 

From:=20 Rotary motors in aircraft=20 [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On=20 Behalf Of Ed Anderson
Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2011 = 9:49=20 AM
To: = Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Intakes old = and=20 new

 

Here is the induction = system set up=20 I first flew with Phtos MVC-007F JPG).  4 injectors into a TWM dual = throat=20 Webber Throttle body (2" dia throats) into a two into four = manifold.  The=20 engine started easily and operated fine - with the exception it was low = on=20 power.  Top speed was 185 MPH TAS. =20

 

The apparently problem was = that=20 while this set up did well for the rotary racing crowd when theirengines = hit=20 9000 rpm - it sucked (but not very well) at the lower rpms like = 5000.  So I=20 swap it out for my current design using an 65mm dia mustang throttle = body and=20 smaller diameter runners and immedately picked up 10 MPH top airspeed = and 400=20 ft/min improvement in Rate of climb.

 

It was the beginning of my = understanding that what works well for one environment and set of = operating=20 conditions may provide lousy results under different = circumstances.  The=20 other two photos show the intake that produced the best results for my=20 installation and which has now been on the aircraft for over 6 years, = top speed=20 achieved with this intake was 196 MPH TAS with the old 2.17:1 and 68x72=20 prop.  Same intake with the 2:85:1 and 74x88 prop topped out at 200 = MPH=20 TAS.

 

Ed

Edward L. = Anderson
Anderson = Electronic=20 Enterprises LLC
305 = Reefton=20 Road
Weddington, NC = 28104
http://www.andersonee.com
http://www.eicommander.com=

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Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and=20 UnSub:  =20 http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html
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