X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com
Return-Path: <dvanwinkle@royell.org>
Received: from [208.80.144.20] (HELO mail.royell.org)
by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4c2)
with ESMTPS id 4913100 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 21 Mar 2011 00:11:53 -0400
Received-SPF: error
receiver=logan.com; client-ip=208.80.144.20; envelope-from=dvanwinkle@royell.org
Received: from IBM04421E67337 ([208.80.148.124])
by mail.royell.org (Royell Mail Server) with SMTP (SSL) id EHG12215
for <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>; Sun, 20 Mar 2011 23:11:15 -0500
Message-ID: <96B1A6515F4B4CB7AFFC92928F97D2E6@IBM04421E67337>
From: "Dean Van Winkle" <dvanwinkle@royell.org>
To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
References: <list-4913101@logan.com>
Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Forced Landing.
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 23:11:13 -0500
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0021_01CBE754.1B4B9B40"
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5931
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5994
X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 110320-1, 03/20/2011), Outbound message
X-Antivirus-Status: Clean
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_0021_01CBE754.1B4B9B40
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="Windows-1252"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
David
Mistral had the test aircraft at Oshkosh one year. They had a secondary =
muffler in addition to the mostly inconel muffler of their own design. =
I was told, I believe it was the next year at Oshkosh again, that the =
secondary muffler had choked up and caused the loss of the aircraft.
Dean Van Winkle
RV-9A, 89 13B NA
dvanwinkle@royell.org =20
----- Original Message -----=20
From: David Leonard=20
To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20
Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2011 10:26 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Forced Landing.
I also have had several mufflers fall apart in sort order, even with =
my turbo, and I no longer use one. The mistral guys lost their aircraft =
due to a clogged muffler (professionally custom made). =20
I did have a DNA muffler that did not fall apart (yet), but it REALLY =
robbed my power. I was down about 20% in top end power so I removed it. =
It nicely cut down on the pitch and didn't weigh alot, so I was sorry =
to see it go.
A nice long straight pipe seems to do a pretty good job at cutting =
down on the sound levels without much cost or risk of bringing down my =
plane. I have been using that for the last couple hundred hours and =
don't expect that I will ever change.
--=20
David Leonard
Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY
http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net
http://RotaryRoster.net
On Sun, Mar 20, 2011 at 6:37 PM, Mark Steitle <msteitle@gmail.com> =
wrote:
Bill, =20
The DNA (Dynamic Noise Attenuation) muffler is the only one I've =
used that has not self-destructed in a matter of hours, except for the =
tangential muffler which was too restrictive and caused other problems =
and gave poor performance. (I should have listened to Lynn.) The DNA =
is not as quiet as other mufflers, but it has worked for about 100 hours =
so far with no sign of fatigue. Also, it has no packing to blow/burn =
out. ANR headsets are a given.
Mark =20
On Sun, Mar 20, 2011 at 4:10 PM, Bill Bradburry =
<bbradburry@bellsouth.net> wrote:
Bobby,
That is an excellent job of both flying and troubleshooting to =
discover the cause of the problem. I am wondering why you have a =
muffler if you have a turbo?
My Hushpower is welded in and up inside the cowl. I would not be =
able to see inside if or remove or replace it with the current setup. =
This incident has really made me start to think about the muffler.. =
Thanks for the great report!
Bill B
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-
From: Rotary motors in aircraft =
[mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Bobby J. Hughes=20
Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2011 4:02 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Forced Landing.=20
Since it=92s been so quiet lately.=20
I had a complete loss of engine power yesterday during climb out =
from Tyler TX (KTYR). I had executed a Vx climb to see you hot I could =
get the oil with the supplemental oil cool I recently added. The engine =
was running but stopped making any power. I switch fuel tanks, adjusted =
the mixture both directions, toggled the primary injector switch for =
cold start and check my breakers. I did everything but switch to the B =
controller. All the troubleshooting took place in about 10 seconds or =
less. At that time my AOA starting telling me =93angle, angle, push, =
push=94 . Glad I had the AOA as I=92m not sure my attention was focused =
on the right priorities. I told the tower I had an engine failure and =
was landing. 35. Very happy this happened at an airport with three long =
runways with different headings. I pointed the nose down and made a =
right turn to the runway. The landing was downwind with 15 knot wind. I =
was too fast and used all 3500ft I had left. I coasted onto a taxiway =
with the engine idling very rough. I couldn=92t make enough power to =
taxi. The FBO was there within two minutes and towed me back to their =
hanger. At this point I figured I had lost an apex seals. I pulled the =
prop through but had good compression. I pulled the cowl and everything =
was in place. Up until now I had remained very calm but that changed =
when I realized there was no smoking gun. I checked my injector power =
connections at the switches but everything seem good. The EC2 coil test =
worked but the injector test did not. I attempted an engine start and it =
ran normally. =93What the h***=94 I later realized I had not activated =
the cold start switch for the injector test. Injectors tested fine. I =
was at a complete loss as what to look at next. I thought about a CAS =
intermediate failure but nothing I could come up with fit the problem. =
After another five minute full power run to 38=94MP on both controllers =
I rolled the plane back into the FBO=92s hanger and took a break. So =
here I am 200 miles from home after a forced landing and the plane is =
making full power as usual. Now the nerves set in full force. It downed =
on me to check the muffler for blockage. From what I could see with a =
flashlight the cone in my HushpowerII was out of place. I dropped the =
muffler from the belly and about a =BD=94 cup of material came out. It =
was small pieces of mess from the cone. About 1/3 of the entrance side =
cone was still intact but the rest was gone. The internal steel support =
that forms the cone was still intact but movable with a large screw =
driver. I knocked as much out as I could and reinstalled the muffler. I =
was unable to knock out any of the mesh that was still in place. I =
decided to conduct a flight test over the airport for ten minutes. If =
all was good then I would head for home and climb to 8500 for the trip =
back. The headwind at 8500 would add 20 minutes to the flight unless I =
ran the engine above 30=94 MP. I didn=92t think it was a good time to =
stress the muffler any more than necessary. I took off and climbed to =
3000 ft on the B controller and circled for several laps. I switched =
controllers, fuel, injector cold start, coils and everything was normal. =
So I nervously departed for the 200 mile trip. I picked up flight =
following and had the autopilot/ flight director take me home. I spent =
the entire flight with the nearest airport active on my Advanced EFIS =
moving map. It draws a line, gives a distance and runway lengths. I also =
check airport information on my ipad and Foreflight. The flight was =
uneventful but was the most stressful I have ever experienced.=20
I=92m guessing the muffler internals came loose and slid rearward =
trapping all the small come material that was dislodged. I was somewhere =
between Vx and Vy at a very high angle of attack when the problem =
occurred. The muffler is parallel l with the bottom of the fuselage so I =
believe any small dislodged material would remain inside the muffler. =
The plan now is to go through the entire electrical system and check =
every connection associated with the EC2 and fuel delivery. I will also =
be looking for a different muffle and putting the plane back into flight =
testing until I can regain my confidence with the install. I am also =
very thankful none of my family was onboard. My teenage daughter had =
decided she didn=92t want to spend the remainder of spring break with me =
visiting my sister.=20
Bobby Hughes
(shaken not stirred)---- check your mufflers!!!!
------=_NextPart_000_0021_01CBE754.1B4B9B40
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="Windows-1252"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dwindows-1252">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.6000.17095" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>David</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Mistral had the test aircraft at =
Oshkosh one=20
year. They had a secondary muffler in addition to the mostly =
inconel=20
muffler of their own design. I was told, I believe it was the next =
year at=20
Oshkosh again, that the secondary muffler had choked up and caused the =
loss of=20
the aircraft.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Dean Van Winkle</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>RV-9A, 89 13B NA</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"mailto:dvanwinkle@royell.org">dvanwinkle@royell.org</A> =20
</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Dwdleonard@gmail.com =
href=3D"mailto:wdleonard@gmail.com">David=20
Leonard</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dflyrotary@lancaironline.net=20
href=3D"mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net">Rotary motors in =
aircraft</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, March 20, 2011 =
10:26=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [FlyRotary] Re: Forced =
Landing.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>I also have had several mufflers fall apart in sort order, even =
with my=20
turbo, and I no longer use one. The mistral guys lost their=20
aircraft due to a clogged muffler (professionally custom =
made). =20
</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I did have a DNA muffler that did not fall apart (yet), but it =
REALLY=20
robbed my power. I was down about 20% in top end power so I =
removed=20
it. It nicely cut down on the pitch and didn't weigh alot, so I =
was=20
sorry to see it go.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>A nice long straight pipe seems to do a pretty good job at =
cutting down=20
on the sound levels without much cost or risk of bringing down my =
plane. =20
I have been using that for the last couple hundred hours and don't =
expect that=20
I will ever change.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>-- <BR>David Leonard<BR><BR>Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY<BR><A=20
=
href=3D"http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net">http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net</A><BR=
><A=20
=
href=3D"http://RotaryRoster.net">http://RotaryRoster.net</A><BR><BR><BR><=
/DIV>
<DIV class=3Dgmail_quote>On Sun, Mar 20, 2011 at 6:37 PM, Mark Steitle =
<SPAN=20
dir=3Dltr><<A=20
href=3D"mailto:msteitle@gmail.com">msteitle@gmail.com</A>></SPAN> =
wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dgmail_quote=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: =
#ccc 1px solid">Bill, =20
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>The DNA (Dynamic Noise Attenuation) muffler is the only one =
I've used=20
that has not self-destructed in a matter of hours, except for the =
tangential=20
muffler which was too restrictive and caused other problems and gave =
poor=20
performance. (I should have listened to Lynn.) The DNA =
is not as=20
quiet as other mufflers, but it has worked for about 100 hours so =
far with=20
no sign of fatigue. Also, it has no packing to blow/burn out.=20
ANR headsets are a given.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Mark </DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR><BR>
<DIV class=3Dgmail_quote>
<DIV class=3Dim>On Sun, Mar 20, 2011 at 4:10 PM, Bill Bradburry =
<SPAN=20
dir=3Dltr><<A href=3D"mailto:bbradburry@bellsouth.net"=20
target=3D_blank>bbradburry@bellsouth.net</A>></SPAN> =
wrote:<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dgmail_quote=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: =
#ccc 1px solid">
<DIV lang=3DEN-US link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<DIV>
<DIV class=3Dim>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">Bobby,</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">That is =
an=20
excellent job of both flying and troubleshooting to discover the =
cause of=20
the problem. I am wondering why you have a muffler if you =
have a=20
turbo?</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">My =
Hushpower is=20
welded in and up inside the cowl. I would not be able to see =
inside=20
if or remove or replace it with the current setup. This =
incident has=20
really made me start to think about the muffler.. Thanks for =
the=20
great report!</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Bill=20
B</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: center" =
align=3Dcenter><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<HR align=3Dcenter width=3D"100%" SIZE=3D2>
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><B><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT=20
face=3DTahoma size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; =
FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">=20
Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:<A=20
href=3D"mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net"=20
target=3D_blank>flyrotary@lancaironline.net</A>] <B><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Bobby J. =
Hughes=20
<DIV class=3Dim><BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: =
bold">Sent:</SPAN></B>=20
Sunday, March 20, 2011 4:02 PM<BR><B><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> Rotary motors in=20
aircraft<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: =
bold">Subject:</SPAN></B>=20
[FlyRotary] Forced Landing. </DIV></SPAN></FONT>
<P></P>
<P></P></DIV>
<DIV class=3Dim>
<DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN =
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN =
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Since it=92s been so quiet lately.=20
</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN =
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN =
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">I had a complete loss of engine power =
yesterday=20
during climb out from Tyler TX (KTYR). I had executed a Vx climb =
to see=20
you hot I could get the oil with the supplemental oil cool I =
recently=20
added. The engine was running but stopped making any power. I =
switch fuel=20
tanks, adjusted the mixture both directions, toggled the primary =
injector=20
switch for cold start and check my breakers. I did everything but =
switch=20
to the B controller. All the troubleshooting took place in about =
10=20
seconds or less. At that time my AOA starting telling me =93angle, =
angle,=20
push, push=94 . Glad I had the AOA as I=92m not sure my attention =
was focused=20
on the right priorities. I told the tower I had an engine failure =
and was=20
landing. 35. Very happy this happened at an airport with three =
long=20
runways with different headings. I pointed the nose down and made =
a right=20
turn to the runway. The landing was downwind with 15 knot wind. I =
was too=20
fast and used all 3500ft I had left. I coasted onto a taxiway with =
the=20
engine idling very rough. I couldn=92t make enough power to taxi. =
The FBO=20
was there within two minutes and towed me back to their hanger. At =
this=20
point I figured I had lost an apex seals. I pulled the prop =
through but=20
had good compression. I pulled the cowl and everything was in =
place. Up=20
until now I had remained very calm but that changed when I =
realized there=20
was no smoking gun. I checked my injector power connections at the =
switches but everything seem good. The EC2 coil test worked but =
the=20
injector test did not. I attempted an engine start and it ran =
normally.=20
=93What the h***=94 I later realized I had not activated the cold =
start switch=20
for the injector test. Injectors tested fine. I was at a complete =
loss as=20
what to look at next. I thought about a CAS intermediate failure =
but=20
nothing I could come up with fit the problem. After another five =
minute=20
full power run to 38=94MP on both controllers I rolled the plane =
back into=20
the FBO=92s hanger and took a break. So here I am 200 miles from =
home after=20
a forced landing and the plane is making full power as usual. Now =
the=20
nerves set in full force. It downed on me to check the muffler for =
blockage. From what I could see with a flashlight the cone in my=20
HushpowerII was out of place. I dropped the muffler from the belly =
and=20
about a =BD=94 cup of material came out. It was small pieces of =
mess from the=20
cone. About 1/3 of the entrance side cone was still intact but the =
rest=20
was gone. The internal steel support that forms the cone was still =
intact=20
but movable with a large screw driver. I knocked as much out as I =
could=20
and reinstalled the muffler. I was unable to knock out any of the =
mesh=20
that was still in place. I decided to conduct a flight test over =
the=20
airport for ten minutes. If all was good then I would head for =
home and=20
climb to 8500 for the trip back. The headwind at 8500 would add 20 =
minutes=20
to the flight unless I ran the engine above 30=94 MP. I didn=92t =
think it was=20
a good time to stress the muffler any more than necessary. I took =
off and=20
climbed to 3000 ft on the B controller and circled for several =
laps. I=20
switched controllers, fuel, injector cold start, coils and =
everything was=20
normal. So I nervously departed for the 200 mile trip. I picked up =
flight=20
following and had the autopilot/ flight director take me home. I =
spent the=20
entire flight with the nearest airport active on my Advanced EFIS =
moving=20
map. It draws a line, gives a distance and runway lengths. I also =
check=20
airport information on my ipad and Foreflight. The flight was =
uneventful=20
but was the most stressful I have ever experienced. =
</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN =
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN =
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">I=92m guessing the muffler internals =
came loose and=20
slid rearward trapping all the small come material that was =
dislodged. I=20
was somewhere between Vx and Vy at a very high angle of attack =
when the=20
problem occurred. The muffler is parallel l with the bottom of the =
fuselage so I believe any small dislodged material would remain =
inside the=20
muffler. The plan now is to go through the entire electrical =
system and=20
check every connection associated with the EC2 and fuel delivery. =
I will=20
also be looking for a different muffle and putting the plane back =
into=20
flight testing until I can regain my confidence with the install. =
I am=20
also very thankful none of my family was onboard. My teenage =
daughter had=20
decided she didn=92t want to spend the remainder of spring break =
with me=20
visiting my sister. </SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN =
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN =
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Bobby Hughes</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN =
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">(shaken not stirred)---- check your=20
=
mufflers!!!!</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>=
</DIV><BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR><BR=20
clear=3Dall><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
------=_NextPart_000_0021_01CBE754.1B4B9B40--