X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from col0-omc2-s17.col0.hotmail.com ([65.55.34.91] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4c2o) with ESMTP id 4870584 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 14 Feb 2011 22:55:28 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=65.55.34.91; envelope-from=momsblacksheep@msn.com Received: from COL109-W7 ([65.55.34.73]) by col0-omc2-s17.col0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Mon, 14 Feb 2011 19:54:52 -0800 Message-ID: Return-Path: momsblacksheep@msn.com Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="_42fc2a29-7f13-4b52-a0dc-75c0a21e05c9_" X-Originating-IP: [76.112.205.181] From: Steve Parkins To: Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Things to check - [FlyRotary] Re: Low compression in rotor 2 ... still Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 19:54:52 -0800 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Feb 2011 03:54:52.0410 (UTC) FILETIME=[19869DA0:01CBCCC4] --_42fc2a29-7f13-4b52-a0dc-75c0a21e05c9_ Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_5616b48e-77bb-44a3-b7ec-e525b803c640_" --_5616b48e-77bb-44a3-b7ec-e525b803c640_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable can you check the coolant presser when you are on the starter ? if the o ri= ng is toast you should see a small pulsing on a presser gage in the radiato= r Steve parkins =20 To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net From: eanderson@carolina.rr.com Date: Mon=2C 14 Feb 2011 11:29:14 -0500 Subject: [FlyRotary] Things to check - [FlyRotary] Re: Low compression in r= otor 2 ... still Chris=2C =20 One thing you might check - is your coolant "O" rings - if they are comprom= ised - combustion pressures can push mixture into your coolant system durin= g compression stoke lowering your chamber pressure. That could show up as = bubbles in the coolant or you might notice "oily" sheen on top of your cool= ant if you can see it through your cap. You won't always get green coolant= fluid in your combustion chamber if an O ring is compromised. =20 The O ring can seal on the intake stroke because at most you have a 14psi = difference=2C but may not on the compression stroke where you can have a 1= 00 psi difference between coolant pressure (ambient) and chamber pressure w= hich could push past a compromised "O" ring. =20 Also=2C if you take you engine down - check carefully in the coolant "O" ri= ng lans to make certain there are no cracks. I use a dentist pick (a needl= e would probably work) and gentle pull it around the inside corners - if i= t catches=2C examine that area closely. =20 Another thing you want to check is your rotors apex seal slots. They can w= allow out through use (although you should not have that much use) such tha= t the apex seals do not ride vertically in the slot and sort of lean over (= as the supporting wall of the slot wallows out) and do not seal as well as = they should. I think Lynn suggested sticking an apex seal in the slot (one= end) and with the other end sticking 3" or so in the air - measure how muc= h you can measure by wiggling that end from one side of the slot to the oth= er. The far end of the apex seal should not move more than 3/8". With new Rotors that again should not be a problem=2C but you are looking f= or stretches and this is one {:>) =20 Yes=2C it gets easier to pull and tear down an engine with practice - but= =2C it gets to be less fun each time {:>) =20 Ed =20 From: Chris Barber=20 Sent: Monday=2C February 14=2C 2011 10:39 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Low compression in rotor 2 ... still Not sure how that would effect the lower compression though. From: Rotary motors in aircraft [flyrotary@lancaironline.net] on behalf of = Chris Barber [cbarber@texasattorney.net] Sent: Monday=2C February 14=2C 2011 9:35 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Low compression in rotor 2 ... still Jeff=2C =20 I shall give that a try =20 Chris From: Rotary motors in aircraft [flyrotary@lancaironline.net] on behalf of = Jeff Whaley [jwhaley@datacast.com] Sent: Monday=2C February 14=2C 2011 9:28 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Low compression in rotor 2 ... still Chris=2C try changing your spark plugs. If you=92ve caused damage to the r= otor springs from detonation=2C you=92ve also exposed the plugs to the same= force. I have never had a problem starting my engine except for this past weekend = =85 wouldn=92t start=2C I was blaming it on the cold=2C so it got more pre-= heat and eventually started exactly as you said=2C a lot of cranking and li= king the starter assist. Yesterday=2C same thing wouldn=92t start =96 more= pre-heat=2C still no joy. Pulled the plugs and they were coated with black= soot=2C so I went home=2C got a brand new set of plugs =96 engine started = right away and with no additional pre-heat. =20 Jeff Whaley =20 From: Chris Barber Subject: Low Compression in rotor 2...still Date: Mon=2C 14 Feb 2011 03:29:28 +0000 To: Rotary motors in aircraft To remind y'all=2C following very hard starting=2C I discovered bad apex se= al springs in my rotor 2 most likely due to detonation. I cracked the keg = and replaced the rear apex springs and sealed it all back up. While apart= =2C I did not discover any damage other than the bad springs. =20 I have been trying to tune the engine=2C however=2C even using BOTH my EC2'= s=2C I am still having problems with very hard starting. When I do get it= to start it is at full lean and I believe only if I switch over to B. Onc= e started I can take the mixture from full lean to a more moderate setting = (even if the tuning is still lacking) and it will run on A or B about the s= ame. I have reset A to factory settings. I do have a bit larger injectors= =2C per Mistrals recommendation=2C but did crank her up to 22. MAP and adju= st Mode 3 once started to just over the mid point per the EC2 manual. =20 It takes an extended period of time of cranking (maybe 50 or 60 seconds...b= etting my starter is hating me) before it starts and then kinda just starts= running as a continuation of the starter being turned=2C instead of the en= gine actually "firing up". =20 I pulled the plugs to check inside and unlike before all the apex seals are= nice and springy=2C HOWEVER=2C when I do a compression check I am only get= ting about 60 psi on the rear rotor. I am getting about 80 psi on the fron= t rotor=2C which is what I expected. =20 =20 =20 __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus=2C version of virus signat= ure database 5873 (20110214) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com This message=2C and the documents attached hereto=2C is intended only for t= he addressee and may contain privileged or confidential information. Any un= authorized disclosure is strictly prohibited. If you have received this mes= sage in error=2C please notify us immediately so that we may correct our in= ternal records. Please then delete the original message. Thank you. = --_5616b48e-77bb-44a3-b7ec-e525b803c640_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable can you check the coolant presser when you are on the starter ? if the o ri= ng is toast you should see a small pulsing on a presser gage in the radiato= r

Steve parkins



 =3B


To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net
From: eanderson@carolina.rr.com
Date:= Mon=2C 14 Feb 2011 11:29:14 -0500
Subject: [FlyRotary] Things to check = - [FlyRotary] Re: Low compression in rotor 2 ... still

Chris=2C
 =3B
One thing you might check - is your coolant "O" rin= gs - if they are compromised - combustion pressures can push mixture into y= our coolant system during compression stoke lowering your chamber pressure.=  =3B That could show up as bubbles in the coolant or you might notice "= oily" sheen on top of your coolant if you can see it through your cap. = =3B =3BYou won't always get green coolant fluid in your combustion cham= ber if an O ring is compromised.
 =3B
 =3BThe O ring can seal on the intake stroke be= cause at most you have a 14psi difference=2C  =3Bbut may not on the com= pression stroke where you can have a 100 psi difference between coolant pre= ssure (ambient) and chamber pressure which could push past a compromised "O= " ring.
 =3B
Also=2C if you take you engine down - check careful= ly in the coolant "O" ring lans to make certain there are no cracks. = =3B I use a dentist pick (a needle would probably work)  =3Band gentle = pull it around the inside corners - if it catches=2C examine that area clos= ely.
 =3B
Another thing you want to check is your rotors apex= seal slots. =3B They can wallow out through use (although you should n= ot have that much use) such that the apex seals do not ride vertically in t= he slot and sort of lean over (as the supporting wall of the slot wallows o= ut) and do not seal as well as they should. =3B I think Lynn suggested = sticking an apex seal in the slot (one end) and with the other end sticking= 3" or so in the air - measure how much you can measure by wiggling that en= d from one side of the slot to the other. =3B The far end of the apex s= eal should not move more than 3/8".
With new Rotors that again should not be a problem= =2C but you are looking for stretches and this is one {:>=3B)
 =3B
Yes=2C it gets easier to pull and tear down an engi= ne with practice - but=2C it gets to be less fun each time {:>=3B)=
 =3B
Ed
 =3B

Sent: Monday=2C February 14=2C 2011 10:39 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Low compression in rotor 2 ... still

Not sure how that would effect the lower compression though.
From: Rotary motors in aircraft [flyrotary@lanc= aironline.net] on behalf of Chris Barber [cbarber@texasattorney.net]
= Sent: Monday=2C February 14=2C 2011 9:35 AM
To: Rotary motors= in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Low compression in rotor 2 = ... still

Jeff=2C
 =3B
I shall give that a try
 =3B
Chris
From: Rotary motors in aircraft [flyrotary@lanc= aironline.net] on behalf of Jeff Whaley [jwhaley@datacast.com]
Sent:<= /B> Monday=2C February 14=2C 2011 9:28 AM
To: Rotary motors in ai= rcraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Low compression in rotor 2 ... st= ill

Chris=2C try changing your spark plugs. =3B If = you=92ve caused damage to the rotor springs from detonation=2C you=92ve als= o exposed the plugs to the same force.

I have never had a problem starting my engine excep= t for this past weekend =85 wouldn=92t start=2C I was blaming it on the col= d=2C so it got more pre-heat and eventually started exactly as you said=2C = a lot of cranking and liking the starter assist.  =3BYesterday=2C same = thing wouldn=92t start =96 more pre-heat=2C still no joy. Pulled the plugs = and they were coated with black soot=2C so I went home=2C got a brand new s= et of plugs =96 engine started right away and with no additional pre-heat.<= /P>

 =3B

Jeff Whaley

 =3B

From:

Chris Barber <=3Bcbarber@texasattorney.net>=3B

Subject:

Low Compression in rotor 2...still

Date:

Mon=2C 14 Feb 2011 03:29:28 +0000

To:

Rotary motors in aircraft <=3Bflyrotary@lancaironlin= e.net>=3B

3D"Message

= 3D"Undecoded

To remind y'all=2C following very hard starting=2C I&n= bsp=3Bdiscovered bad =3Bapex seal springs in my rotor 2 most likely due= to detonation. =3B I cracked the keg and replaced the rear apex spring= s and sealed it all back up. =3B While apart=2C I did not discover any = damage other than the bad springs.

 =3B

I have been trying to tune the engine=2C however=2C ev= en using BOTH my EC2's=2C I am still having problems with very hard startin= g. =3B =3B When I do get it to start it is at full lean and I belie= ve only if I switch over to B. =3B Once =3Bstarted I can take the m= ixture from full lean to a more moderate setting (even if the tuning is sti= ll lacking) and it will run on A or B about the same. =3B I have reset = A to factory settings. =3B I do have a bit larger injectors=2C per Mist= rals recommendation=2C but did =3Bcrank her up to 22. =3BMAP and ad= just Mode 3 once started to just over the mid point per the =3BEC2 manu= al.

 =3B

It takes an extended period of time of cranking (maybe= 50 or =3B60 seconds...betting my starter is hating me) =3Bbefore i= t starts and then =3Bkinda just starts running as a continuation of the= starter being turned=2C instead of the engine actually "firing up".=

 =3B

I pulled the plugs to check inside =3Band unlike b= efore all the apex =3Bseals are nice and springy=2C HOWEVER=2C when I d= o a compression check I am only getting about 60 psi on the rear rotor.&nbs= p=3B I am getting about 80 psi on the front rotor=2C which is what I expect= ed.

 =3B

 =3B

 =3B



__________ Information fr= om ESET NOD32 Antivirus=2C version of virus signature database 5873 (201102= 14) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
<= BR>http://www.eset.com=

This message=2C and the d= ocuments attached hereto=2C is intended only for the addressee and may cont= ain privileged or confidential information. Any unauthorized disclosure is = strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error=2C please n= otify us immediately so that we may correct our internal records. Please th= en delete the original message. Thank you.
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