X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail-ew0-f52.google.com ([209.85.215.52] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4c2k) with ESMTPS id 4864887 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 14 Feb 2011 12:12:01 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.215.52; envelope-from=rwstracy@gmail.com Received: by ewy23 with SMTP id 23so2390268ewy.25 for ; Mon, 14 Feb 2011 09:11:23 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=pnxipI7sljzxDnfOUbYuO7BSlIS5u+YxVh/Nf85/Kc8=; b=hR6wTHUakyra6+5LH6+vdOBn9XaIcAUveQjexVcA9acQmmuNCn9ZjD+BSb46rkH6lv zS1dDxRqykyDC4YyAQYz2HDadReiiaCbE6dwswrlRjvNzsf+zbTvDbSREiQOwXcFuU3r e9aN15BQvOgWJGRP7Wx6KyNSdj4BnBZ5r7PIg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; b=VsQiA/MFg1W2XTvjvnewrWDznNZ+ktx50pv15ENH0ROkLAD0oJTJZJPNQW0anGjSiR izm9bPWxicxmanOXzqfS/HMErV0p7QpjG1VZxMDolcYycidgOa6UXkS/Pu1HM4bboIHJ Ik7+t4tdunCHVp0bnZ6DYPnCK/4CODpuZS370= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.55.145 with SMTP id k17mr955114wec.48.1297703482707; Mon, 14 Feb 2011 09:11:22 -0800 (PST) Sender: rwstracy@gmail.com Received: by 10.216.59.65 with HTTP; Mon, 14 Feb 2011 09:11:22 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 12:11:22 -0500 X-Google-Sender-Auth: TkCuJzayRq4XoDDdInmhpP1u03c Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Low Compression in rotor 2...still From: Tracy To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e6dab4df1c4e22049c41230d --0016e6dab4df1c4e22049c41230d Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi Chris, It never occurred to me that you might replace only the Apex seal springs and not the seals themselves. If you fried the springs you undoubtedly fried the seals too. The failure mode (if they are RA Seals) is usually the seal sagging in the groove so that it no longer seals in the center of the rotor housing. Detonation this bad on the factory seals is usually fracture which usually wipes out the housings and rotors too. To verify, put two seals face to face and see if you can see daylight in the center. Tracy On Sun, Feb 13, 2011 at 10:29 PM, Chris Barber wrote: > To remind y'all, following very hard starting, I discovered bad apex seal > springs in my rotor 2 most likely due to detonation. I cracked the keg and > replaced the rear apex springs and sealed it all back up. While apart, I > did not discover any damage other than the bad springs. > > > > I have been trying to tune the engine, however, even using BOTH my EC2's, > I am still having problems with very hard starting. When I do get it to > start it is at full lean and I believe only if I switch over to B. > Once started I can take the mixture from full lean to a more moderate > setting (even if the tuning is still lacking) and it will run on A or B > about the same. I have reset A to factory settings. I do have a bit larger > injectors, per Mistrals recommendation, but did crank her up to 22. MAP and > adjust Mode 3 once started to just over the mid point per the EC2 manual. > > > > It takes an extended period of time of cranking (maybe 50 or 60 > seconds...betting my starter is hating me) before it starts and then kindajust starts running as a continuation of the starter being turned, instead > of the engine actually "firing up". > > > > I pulled the plugs to check inside and unlike before all the apex seals are > nice and springy, HOWEVER, when I do a compression check I am only getting > about 60 psi on the rear rotor. I am getting about 80 psi on the front > rotor, which is what I expected. > > > > Guys and Gals, I just rebuilt this rear rotor. I am confidant that I got > it together properly...but, obviously, I shouldn't be so confidant as the > facts is the facts. The rear rotor is only 60 psi which IF I understand > correctly would lead to hard starting (and perhaps some rough running as the > engine does not seem as smooth when running as it has in the past). > > > > I have been getting it to run with much effort over the last few weeks but > kept it at lower power. Today, however I did run it up for several seconds > and was able to produce a steady 6300 RPM at 33.4 MAP. > > > > I had it suggested that the new springs needed some time to "set", but I am > not really thinking this holds water...or compression for that matter. I > also tried squirting in some MM oil and compression did come up a bit, but > the REALLY hard start remains. > > > > I am once again mostly resigned to tearing open the engine to see what I > must have missed. But since I am pretty sure I did it right before WHAT, > pray tell, may you fine gentlepersons suggest I look for when/if I open > her up again???? Or, even better, suggestions that would prevent a > teardown. FYI, the plugs looked like I would have expected....brownish ashy > with no oil build up. Also, I am not having any current indication of > coolant in the chambers (don't ask me how I know how to look for that tell > tale sign [-( > > > > Please feel free to ask probing questions regarding my method and or > attempts. > > > > I am betting ya'll are getting tired of hearing from me..... > > > > Chris Barber > > Houston > --0016e6dab4df1c4e22049c41230d Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Chris,
=A0=A0 It never occurred to me that you might replace only the= Apex seal springs and not the seals themselves.=A0 If you fried the spring= s you undoubtedly fried the seals too.=A0=A0 The failure mode (if they are = RA Seals) is usually the seal sagging in the groove so that it no longer se= als in the center of the rotor housing.=A0 Detonation this bad on the facto= ry seals is usually fracture which usually wipes out the housings and rotor= s too.

=A0 To verify, put two seals face to face and see if you can see daylig= ht in the center.=A0

Tracy

On Su= n, Feb 13, 2011 at 10:29 PM, Chris Barber <cbarber@texasattorney.net> = wrote:

To remind y'all, following very hard starting, I=A0discovered= bad=A0apex seal springs in my rotor 2 most likely due to detonation.=A0 I = cracked the keg and replaced the rear apex springs and sealed it all back u= p.=A0 While apart, I did not discover any damage other than the bad springs.

=A0

I have been trying to tune the engine, however, even using BOTH my EC2&#= 39;s, I am still having problems with very hard starti= ng.=A0=A0 When I do get it to start it is at full lean and I believe only i= f I switch over to B.=A0 Once=A0started I can take the mixture from full lean to a more moderate setting (even if = the tuning is still lacking) and it will run on A or B about the same.=A0 I= have reset A to factory settings.=A0 I do have a bit larger injectors, per= Mistrals recommendation, but did=A0crank her up to 22.=A0MAP and adjust Mode 3 once started to just over the mid po= int per the=A0EC2 manual.

=A0

It takes an extended period of time of cranking (maybe 50 or=A060 second= s...betting my starter is hating me)=A0before it starts and then=A0kinda= just starts running as a continuation of the starter bei= ng turned, instead of the engine actually "firing up".

=A0

I pulled the plugs to check inside=A0and unlike before all the apex=A0se= als are nice and springy, HOWEVER, when I do a compression check I am only = getting about 60 psi on the rear rotor.=A0 I am getting about 80 psi on the= front rotor, which is what I expected.

=A0

Guys and Gals, I just rebuilt this rear rotor.=A0 I am confidant that I = got it together properly...but, obviously, I shouldn't be so con= fidant as the facts is the facts.=A0The rear rotor is only 60 psi wh= ich IF I understand correctly would lead to hard starting (and perhaps some rough running as the engine does not se= em as smooth when running as it has in the past).

=A0

I have been getting it to run with much effort over the last few weeks b= ut kept it at lower power.=A0 Today, however I did run it up for several se= conds and was able to produce a steady=A06300 RPM at 33.4 MAP.

=A0

I had it suggested that the new springs needed some time to "set&qu= ot;, but I am not really thinking this holds water...or compression for tha= t matter.=A0 I also tried squirting in some MM oil and compression did come= up a bit, but the REALLY hard start remains.

=A0

I am once again mostly resigned to tearing open the engine to see what I= must have missed.=A0 But since I am pretty sure I did it right before WHAT= , pray tell, may you fine gentlepersons suggest I look for when/if I= open her up again????=A0 Or, even better, suggestions that would prevent a teardown.=A0 FYI, the plugs looked like I= would have expected....brownish ashy with no oil build up. Also, I=A0am no= t having any current indication of coolant in the chambers (don't ask m= e how I know how to look for that tell tale sign [-(

=A0

Please feel free to ask probing questions regarding my method and or att= empts.

=A0

I am betting ya'll are getting tired of hearing from me.....

=A0

Chris Barber

Houston


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