X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from imr-da05.mx.aol.com ([205.188.105.147] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4c2k) with ESMTP id 4864221 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 14 Feb 2011 00:28:28 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=205.188.105.147; envelope-from=Bktrub@aol.com Received: from imo-da03.mx.aol.com (imo-da03.mx.aol.com [205.188.169.201]) by imr-da05.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id p1E5RoE2013261 for ; Mon, 14 Feb 2011 00:27:50 -0500 Received: from Bktrub@aol.com by imo-da03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.9.) id q.d9e.12b2af7e (55762) for ; Mon, 14 Feb 2011 00:27:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtprly-me02.mx.aol.com (smtprly-me02.mx.aol.com [64.12.95.103]) by cia-md05.mx.aol.com (v129.7) with ESMTP id MAILCIAMD053-b2d04d58bd4d3e2; Mon, 14 Feb 2011 00:27:45 -0500 Received: from webmail-m145 (webmail-m145.sim.aol.com [149.174.9.29]) by smtprly-me02.mx.aol.com (v129.8) with ESMTP id MAILSMTPRLYME027-b2d04d58bd4d3e2; Mon, 14 Feb 2011 00:27:41 -0500 References: To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Low Compression in rotor 2...still Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 00:27:41 -0500 X-AOL-IP: 74.110.91.118 In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 From: bktrub@aol.com X-MB-Message-Type: User Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8CD9A1F09171C9C_1230_53A60_webmail-m145.sysops.aol.com" X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 33222-STANDARD Received: from 74.110.91.118 by webmail-m145.sysops.aol.com (149.174.9.29) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Mon, 14 Feb 2011 00:27:41 -0500 Message-Id: <8CD9A1F083036DB-1230-22B75@webmail-m145.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-SENDER: Bktrub@aol.com ----------MB_8CD9A1F09171C9C_1230_53A60_webmail-m145.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" This is a puzzler. How are you lubing the apex springs? Not that that has= anything to do with it, just wondering. Also wonder how funtional the ape= x springs are when the motor is spinning- shouldn't centrifugal force driv= e the seals out against the rotor housing walls?=20 I hate to be a pessimist, but did you check the side seals and corner seal= s also? Brian Trubee -----Original Message----- From: Chris Barber To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Sun, Feb 13, 2011 7:29 pm Subject: [FlyRotary] Low Compression in rotor 2...still To remind y'all, following very hard starting, I discovered bad apex seal= springs in my rotor 2 most likely due to detonation. I cracked the keg= and replaced the rear apex springs and sealed it all back up. While apar= t, I did not discover any damage other than the bad springs. =20 I have been trying to tune the engine, however, even using BOTH my EC2's,= I am still having problems with very hard starting. When I do get it to= start it is at full lean and I believe only if I switch over to B. Once= started I can take the mixture from full lean to a more moderate setting= (even if the tuning is still lacking) and it will run on A or B about the= same. I have reset A to factory settings. I do have a bit larger inject= ors, per Mistrals recommendation, but did crank her up to 22. MAP and adju= st Mode 3 once started to just over the mid point per the EC2 manual. =20 It takes an extended period of time of cranking (maybe 50 or 60 seconds...= betting my starter is hating me) before it starts and then kinda just star= ts running as a continuation of the starter being turned, instead of the= engine actually "firing up". =20 I pulled the plugs to check inside and unlike before all the apex seals ar= e nice and springy, HOWEVER, when I do a compression check I am only getti= ng about 60 psi on the rear rotor. I am getting about 80 psi on the front= rotor, which is what I expected. =20 Guys and Gals, I just rebuilt this rear rotor. I am confidant that I got= it together properly...but, obviously, I shouldn't be so confidant as the= facts is the facts. The rear rotor is only 60 psi which IF I understand= correctly would lead to hard starting (and perhaps some rough running as= the engine does not seem as smooth when running as it has in the past). =20 I have been getting it to run with much effort over the last few weeks but= kept it at lower power. Today, however I did run it up for several secon= ds and was able to produce a steady 6300 RPM at 33.4 MAP. =20 I had it suggested that the new springs needed some time to "set", but I= am not really thinking this holds water...or compression for that matter.= I also tried squirting in some MM oil and compression did come up a bit,= but the REALLY hard start remains. =20 I am once again mostly resigned to tearing open the engine to see what I= must have missed. But since I am pretty sure I did it right before WHAT,= pray tell, may you fine gentlepersons suggest I look for when/if I open= her up again???? Or, even better, suggestions that would prevent a teard= own. FYI, the plugs looked like I would have expected....brownish ashy wi= th no oil build up. Also, I am not having any current indication of coolan= t in the chambers (don't ask me how I know how to look for that tell tale= sign [-( =20 Please feel free to ask probing questions regarding my method and or attem= pts. =20 I am betting ya'll are getting tired of hearing from me..... =20 Chris Barber Houston ----------MB_8CD9A1F09171C9C_1230_53A60_webmail-m145.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
This is a puzzler. How are you lubing the apex springs? Not that that= has anything to do with it, just wondering. Also wonder how funtional the= apex springs are when the motor is spinning- shouldn't centrifugal force= drive the seals out against the rotor housing walls?
 
I hate to be a pessimist, but did you check the side seals and corner= seals also?
 
Brian Trubee



-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Barber <cbarber@texasattorney.net>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Sun, Feb 13, 2011 7:29 pm
Subject: [FlyRotary] Low Compression in rotor 2...still

 
I have been trying to tune the engine, however, even using BOTH my EC= 2's, I am still having problems with very hard starti= ng.   When I do get it to start it is at full lean and I believe= only if I switch over to B.  Once started I can take the= mixture from full lean to a more moderate setting (even if the tuning is= still lacking) and it will run on A or B about the same.  I have res= et A to factory settings.  I do have a bit larger injectors, per Mist= rals recommendation, but did crank her up to 22. MAP and adjust= Mode 3 once started to just over the mid point per the EC2= manual.
 
It takes an extended period of time of cranking (maybe 50 or 60= seconds...betting my starter is hating me) before it starts and then=  kinda just starts running as a continuation of= the starter being turned, instead of the engine actually "firing up".
 
I pulled the plugs to check inside and unlike before all the ape= x seals are nice and springy, HOWEVER, when I do a compression check= I am only getting about 60 psi on the rear rotor.  I am getting abou= t 80 psi on the front rotor, which is what I expected.
 
Guys and Gals, I just rebuilt this rear rotor.  I am confidant= that I got it together properly...but, obviously, I shouldn't be= so confidant as the facts is the facts. The rear rotor is onl= y 60 psi which IF I understand correctly would lead to hard starting (and= perhaps some rough running as the engine does not seem as smooth when run= ning as it has in the past).
 
I have been getting it to run with much effort over the last few week= s but kept it at lower power.  Today, however I did run it up for sev= eral seconds and was able to produce a steady 6300 RPM at 33.4 MAP.
 
I had it suggested that the new springs needed some time to "set", bu= t I am not really thinking this holds water...or compression for that matt= er.  I also tried squirting in some MM oil and compression did come= up a bit, but the REALLY hard start remains.
 
I am once again mostly resigned to tearing open the engine to see wha= t I must have missed.  But since I am pretty sure I did it right befo= re WHAT, pray tell, may you fine gentlepersons suggest I look for= when/if I open her up again????  Or, even better, suggestions that= would prevent a teardown.  FYI, the plugs looked like I would have= expected....brownish ashy with no oil build up. Also, I am not havin= g any current indication of coolant in the chambers (don't ask me how I kn= ow how to look for that tell tale sign [-(
 
Please feel free to ask probing questions regarding my method and or= attempts.
 
I am betting ya'll are getting tired of hearing from me.....
 
Chris Barber
Houston
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