X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from nm12.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com ([98.139.91.82] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.11) with SMTP id 4651632 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 22 Dec 2010 19:30:13 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=98.139.91.82; envelope-from=keltro@att.net Received: from [98.139.91.61] by nm12.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Dec 2010 00:29:39 -0000 Received: from [98.139.91.26] by tm1.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Dec 2010 00:29:39 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1026.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Dec 2010 00:29:39 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 539208.63325.bm@omp1026.mail.sp2.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 62927 invoked by uid 60001); 23 Dec 2010 00:29:39 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=att.net; s=s1024; t=1293064179; bh=zg6kxkxcvRM3u9SsCGTZPOTtdp5NZSarPc99mwfR8r8=; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=rXjZg+w8ab70kKIVw1bhwx+MJq6j2F+oEV+d57u2gfIPhvCAfNcvZSJA50/v7P2j3bqSmWHWOtYvDFaJqmTuYnM8y2cOVIBXiqAIwo9bI86k4Qmpup1+62CRV8lCBpH08FxxpxKFradSo7Av4ad1anUbu1PGoYMJP0jBLp+wlXg= DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=att.net; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=QzfuRpkAHkIA8GuTjcI0Lkvuu3QiJIR4b6YpEfjkHlTeasvvLshEU5SHUt5ALGfaIvtYEFF3BAUiCZTnPhjYJKXqXTlPmpHvvCTndrf6wPFwCpSb9xbEhKjSis4+QkXo2kVlFytaYmEUeAWfGnBR66DVCrA6LkbWyPGb1Dv1ly8=; Message-ID: <248635.43574.qm@web83907.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: ydoEGf8VM1ltO.uGYI0bmonk58U3r7W7qobHSICsI_hp.a_ mB5qHH8qon6SNpa0smiykcDs.SEjSOr.rPIctXGoqYvCopq07iSyl_PTlnRx VaA9dC3QYv.krPhRAsyncRXZoZR7PcF0xYtNa9pMMHsfRPAgK9MtzNm3oAbB lyoHzEuyLDBAWC.4Z3dYOjYXFeBODsIqtm2nwR347rX_CufqsHh3j8IV8Gbi txIGhECeOcOJeQL5dGorazoxgFuJMz9UfjVs9FJywzdKNQHdJ2uGafXbhMef GTTNm1jSjxg-- Received: from [208.114.45.238] by web83907.mail.sp1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 22 Dec 2010 16:29:38 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/553 YahooMailWebService/0.8.107.285259 References: Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2010 16:29:38 -0800 (PST) From: Kelly Troyer Subject: Re: 13B Turbo Manifold To: Rotary motors in aircraft In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-536539241-1293064178=:43574" --0-536539241-1293064178=:43574 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Chris,=0AHave any photos of your header and do you recall=A0from what compa= ny you purchased=0Afrom or the manufacturer=A0(brand name)..............=0A= =A0=0AKelly Troyer=0A"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)=0A"13B ROTARY"_ Engine= =0A"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2=0A"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold=0A"TURBONETICS"_TO= 4E50 Turbo=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Chris Bar= ber =0ATo: Rotary motors in aircraft =0ASent: Wed, December 22, 2010 5:18:29 PM=0ASubject: [Fl= yRotary] Re: 13B Turbo Manifold=0A=0A=0AI started with a similar header but= have had it heavily modified to fit below =0Athe Mistal intake on my pushe= r.=A0=0A=0ASent from my iPhone 4=0A=0AOn Dec 22, 2010, at 3:14 PM, "Bill Br= adburry" wrote:=0A=0A=0AThose SS headers are act= ually pretty cheap.=A0 I wonder what they would charge to =0Abuild a header= that goes in the wrong direction like is required for tractor =0Aplanes.= =A0 =0A=0A>=A0=0A>Bill B=0A>=A0=0A>=0A________________________________=0A= =0A>From:Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On = Behalf Of =0A>Kelly Troyer=0A>Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 4:10 PM=0A= >To: Rotary motors in aircraft=0A>Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 13B Turbo Manifo= ld=0A>=A0=0A>Ernest you make my head hurt !!...............Now I have to be= a =0A>"Metallurgist"...............<:)=0A>=A0=0A>Kelly Troyer=0A>"DYKE DEL= TA JD2"(Eventually)=0A>"13B ROTARY"_ Engine=0A>"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2=0A>"MISTR= AL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold=0A>"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo=0A>=A0=0A>=A0=0A>= =0A________________________________=0A=0A>From:Ernest Christley =0A>To: Rotary motors in aircraft =0A= >Sent: Wed, December 22, 2010 2:35:58 PM=0A>Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 13B Tu= rbo Manifold=0A>=0A>Kelly Troyer wrote:=0A>> Ernest,=0A>>=A0 =A0 =A0 Not su= re what you mean by "Welds not cleaned up"...........All I see on =0A>>thes= e "TIG" welds is=0A>> a slight discoloration at the edge of the weld bead c= aused by the arc heat..=0A>=0A>The first link of a Google search on "stainl= ess steel welding corrosion" was =0A>http://www.mcnallyinstitute.com/04-htm= l/4-1.html=0A>=0A>From that site:=0A>=0A>INTERGRANULAR CORROSION=0A>=0A>All= austenitic stainless steels (the 300 series, the types that "work harden")= =0A>contain a small amount of carbon in solution in the austenite. Carbon = is =0A>precipitated out at the grain boundaries, of the steel, in the tempe= rature range =0A>of 1050=B0 F. (565=B0 C) to 1600=B0 F. (870=B0 C.). This i= s a typical temperature range =0A>during the welding of stainless steel.=0A= >=0A>This carbon combines with the chrome in the stainless steel to form ch= romium =0A>carbide, starving the adjacent areas of the chrome they need for= corrosion =0A>protection. In the presence of some strong corrosives an ele= ctrochemical action =0A>is initiated between the chrome rich and chrome poo= r areas with the areas low in =0A>chrome becoming attacked. The grain bound= aries are then dissolved and become non =0A>existent. There are three ways = to combat this:=0A>=0A>=A0 =A0 * Anneal the stainless after it has been hea= ted in this sensitive range. =0A>This means bringing it up to the proper an= nealing temperature and then quickly =0A>cooling it down through the sensit= ive temperature range to prevent the carbides =0A>from forming.=0A>=A0 =A0 = * When possible use low carbon content stainless if you intend to do any = =0A>welding on it. A carbon content of less than 0.3% will not precipitate = into a =0A>continuous film of chrome carbide at the grain boundaries. 316L = is as good =0A>example of a low carbon stainless steel.=0A>=A0 =A0 * Alloy = the metal with a strong carbide former. The best is columbium, but =0A>some= times titanium is used. The carbon will now form columbium carbide rather = =0A>than going after the chrome to form chrome carbide. The material is now= said to =0A>be "stabilized"=0A>=0A>They could have used a filler that made= post treatment unnecessary, or they =0A>could have annealed it.=A0 The lin= k you gave says it is made of T304.=A0 Depending =0A>on which T304, the car= bon ranges from .03 to .08%, so it may not be an issue at =0A>all.=0A>=0A>= =0A>--=0A>Homepage:=A0 http://www.flyrotary.com/=0A>Archive and UnSub:=A0 h= ttp://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html --0-536539241-1293064178=:43574 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
=0A
Chris,
=0A
Have any photos of your header = and do you recall from what company you purchased
=0A
from or= the manufacturer (brand name)..............
 
=0A

Kell= y Troyer
"DYKE DELTA JD2" (= Eventually)

=0A

"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2= /EM2
"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold

=0A

"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turb= o

=0A

=0A

=0A
=0A<= HR SIZE=3D1>=0AFrom: Chris = Barber <cbarber@texasattorney.net>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.= net>
Sent: Wed, Decem= ber 22, 2010 5:18:29 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 13B Turbo Manifold

=0A
I started= with a similar header but have had it heavily modified to fit below the Mi= stal intake on my pusher. 

Sent from my iPhone 4
=0A
<= BR>On Dec 22, 2010, at 3:14 PM, "Bill Bradburry" <bbradburry@bellsouth.net> wrote:

= =0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A

Those SS headers ar= e actually pretty cheap.  I wonder what they would charge to build a h= eader that goes in the wrong direction like is required for tractor planes.=  

=0A

 

=0A

Bill B

=0A

 

=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A

From:= Rotary motors in airc= raft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Kelly Troyer
Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 4:10 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 13B Turb= o Manifold

=0A

 =

=0A
=0A
=0A

Ernest you make my head hu= rt !!...............Now I have to be a "Metallurgist"...............<:)<= BR> 

=0A

Kelly Troyer
<= STRONG>"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)

=0A

"13B ROT= ARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold

=0A

"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo

=0A=0A

 

=0A
=0A

 

=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A

<= B>From: Ernest Christley= <echristley@att.net>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <<= A href=3D"mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net" rel=3Dnofollow target=3D_blan= k ymailto=3D"mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net">flyrotary@lancaironline.ne= t>
Sent: Wed, Dec= ember 22, 2010 2:35:58 PM
Subject:<= /SPAN> [FlyRotary] Re: 13B Turbo Manifold

Kelly Troyer wrote:
> Ernest= ,
>      Not sure what you mean by "Welds not cleaned up"...........All I see on these "TIG" welds is
> a slight discolora= tion at the edge of the weld bead caused by the arc heat..

The first= link of a Google search on "stainless steel welding corrosion" was http://www.mcnallyinstitute.com/04-html/4-1.html

From = that site:

INTERGRANULAR CORROSION

All austenitic stainless s= teels (the 300 series, the types that "work harden") contain a small amount= of carbon in solution in the austenite. Carbon is precipitated out at the = grain boundaries, of the steel, in the temperature range of 1050=B0 F. (565= =B0 C) to 1600=B0 F. (870=B0 C.). This is a typical temperature range durin= g the welding of stainless steel.

This carbon combines with the chro= me in the stainless steel to form chromium carbide, starving the adjacent a= reas of the chrome they need for corrosion protection. In the presence of s= ome strong corrosives an electrochemical action is initiated between the chrom= e rich and chrome poor areas with the areas low in chrome becoming attacked= . The grain boundaries are then dissolved and become non existent. There ar= e three ways to combat this:

    * Anneal the stainless af= ter it has been heated in this sensitive range. This means bringing it up t= o the proper annealing temperature and then quickly cooling it down through= the sensitive temperature range to prevent the carbides from forming.
&= nbsp;   * When possible use low carbon content stainless if you intend= to do any welding on it. A carbon content of less than 0.3% will not preci= pitate into a continuous film of chrome carbide at the grain boundaries. 31= 6L is as good example of a low carbon stainless steel.
    * A= lloy the metal with a strong carbide former. The best is columbium, but som= etimes titanium is used. The carbon will now form columbium carbide rather than going after the chrome to form chrome carbide. The material is= now said to be "stabilized"

They could have used a filler that made= post treatment unnecessary, or they could have annealed it.  The link= you gave says it is made of T304.  Depending on which T304, the carbo= n ranges from .03 to .08%, so it may not be an issue at all.


--<= BR>Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub:  http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotar= y/List.html

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