X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail-ew0-f44.google.com ([209.85.215.44] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.11) with ESMTP id 4636860 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Fri, 10 Dec 2010 14:04:35 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.215.44; envelope-from=msteitle@gmail.com Received: by ewy8 with SMTP id 8so2843922ewy.31 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 2010 11:03:59 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:received:in-reply-to :references:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=/1Teg4svv3qX8ZXRN/0jSIyhtvoZcpd7ZCeaIRDDJ0w=; b=gYgLIxIRg+8AbFHuuTyePnv7OOoeKY9gC4wvS2dP/51ZP+D03/TWI3orYsqytBl6Ew DorCmecoA7V7SzDNggl0dtBer5miOdbYRlJHMeVG7p2/jRUQRp/dZSVHLLtw4W2DIRBL wQiNXbQfrt8Xm07yANH5nd6SHkH6tCXYVMZHE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=wF0VEXZIYBS1d6jAkr4wHH7keGcBZlL2C7CZM2uvkEZUMtXaoBT6jWe5/tgK7qeY7z iBUqgoJwaimXq716hPnSnWrDnDnug0gwoPekXhSIbxFan7LUQr7Mu3V7l0J7oHcG+8Ph TNerIZ0oi2gaanN91MB91Iw0vCAsdF6qBSbJQ= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.213.27.68 with SMTP id h4mr1399024ebc.10.1292007839630; Fri, 10 Dec 2010 11:03:59 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.213.21.146 with HTTP; Fri, 10 Dec 2010 11:03:59 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2010 13:03:59 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Source for 18mm x 2.0 Bolt From: Mark Steitle To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015174c0d94540681049713042a --0015174c0d94540681049713042a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Todd, Not a bad idea. But in this case, we only want to permanently plug the hole in the rear side housing. We've got the machinist working on a bolt. He loves a good challenge. ;-) Mark On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 12:31 PM, Todd Bartrim wrote: > Hi Mark; > I did something similar. I wanted to use fittings that were common to > me in my line of work as due to the very low cost to me (free) for a high > quality product, I would be more inclined to simply change out all hoses > during each annual. This meant installing an NPTxTube Swagelok fitting into > each port. > On several of the ports I had the same issue where there wasn't enough > material to drill & tap out to the next size up and the closest size was > just too close to the existing size to cut a decent thread. I tried cutting > the thread anyways, then I used Devcon plastic steel (same as JB Weld) as a > thread sealant and installed the desired fitting. Next day I put a large > wrench on it and could not budge it. I added a snipe to the wrench and still > could not budge it. So I did several other similar fittings the same way. > None ever leaked during 50 flight hours and many more on the ground. > If removal is ever required an oxy/acetylene torch used to heat the > center of the fitting (not the housing) to red hot (or close) will break > down the plastic weld and fitting will thread right out and plastic weld > residue will just be an easily removable crumbly powder. This won't damage > the housing if done with care and the operating temp of the engine will > never come close to breaking down the plastic steel. > In your case you can just use a commonly available bolt that is close > enough and use that to plug your port. > > Todd > RV9 Turbo13B > > > > > On Thu, 2010-12-09 at 18:48 -0600, Mark Steitle wrote: > > Yes, but welding on the housing could warp it rendering it junk. We don't > want to risk it. We're moving forward on having a bolt made. > > > > Mark > > On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 5:15 PM, Bill Bradburry > wrote: > > Can it be welded up, redrilled, and retapped? > > > > Bill B > > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] *On > Behalf Of *Ed Anderson > *Sent:* Thursday, December 09, 2010 10:29 AM > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Source for 18mm x 2.0 Bolt > > > > > Ah, I had missed the part about already tapping the hole with the > 18x2.0. Yes, that sort of puts you needing a 18x2.0 bolt. > > > > > > Ed > > > > > > *From:* Mark Steitle > > > *Sent:* Thursday, December 09, 2010 7:37 AM > > > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > > > *Subject:*[FlyRotary] Re: Source for 18mm x 2.0 Bolt > > > > > > Ed, > > > > > I totally agree, except were you don't have much other choice, like when > plugging the heater port. There isn't enough material to drill & tap to a > common size. The 18mm was a good fit, and would have worked out great if we > had used a more common pitch, like 1.5. Who would have known that they make > taps for non-existent bolt sizes. > > > > > > Mark > > On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 6:15 AM, Ed Anderson > wrote: > > I would avoid the "have it made route" if possible. If for some reason > you ever needed a replacement, you'd have to have it made again. Although, > I must admit, I can't imagine what would ruin an 18x2.0 bolt that wouldn't > trash the engine - but you never know {:>). > > > > > > I try to stick with easily available standard sizes if at all possible > for just about anything on the aircraft - so I can run down to local Auto > store when away from home and get the part if needed. > > > > > > Ed > > > > > > *From:* Mark Steitle > > > *Sent:* Thursday, December 09, 2010 6:35 AM > > > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > > > *Subject:*[FlyRotary] Re: Source for 18mm x 2.0 Bolt > > > > > > From the responses received on this it looks like the best route is to go > see the machinist and have one made. Oh, and throw the 18mm x 2.0 tap in > the trash. > > > > > Mark > > On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 9:26 PM, Dave wrote: > > Bought something bigger, cut it down... filed the threads into a taper at > the tip and played with it carefully so it didnt cross thread. Thats what I > did with our first attempt at a block, when we put an aluminum adapter on > the oil pump pad for oil return and PSRU feed. > > Later gen used the stock oil return fitting with an AN adapter on it. > > On 12/8/2010 3:40 PM, Mark Steitle wrote: > > Kelly, > > > > > > Short story is that this is the tap size I had handy that fit the hole. > We're trying to plug the heater port on the rear housing. Who would have > thought that an 18mm x 2.0 would be an oddball size! We found a place that > sells 18mm x 2.0 nuts, but they tell us that nobody makes an 18 x 2.0 bolt. > That seems hard to believe. > > > > > > Mark > > > On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 3:26 PM, Kelly Troyer wrote: > > Mark, > > > Try the link below.............What in the world is it for > !!.................There may be other sources but > > > > > > this is the first one I found................. > > > > http://www.fullermetric.com/products/hex/din933_931-8.8hex_head_cap_screw.html#14-20 > > > > > > Kelly Troyer > *"DYKE DELTA JD2"** **(Eventually)* > > "13B ROTARY"_ Engine > "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 > "MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold > > "TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Richard Sohn > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Sent:* Wed, December 8, 2010 2:57:49 PM > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Source for 18mm x 2.0 Bolt > > You will have a hard time for that. M18 x 2.5 is standard and first > choice fine is 18 x 1.5 . You may have to get it made. > > > > > > Richard Sohn > N2071U > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > *From:* Mark Steitle > > > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > > > *Sent:* Wednesday, December 08, 2010 1:49 PM > > > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Source for 18mm x 2.0 Bolt > > > > > > Anyone know where I can purchase an 18mm x 2.0 bolt? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --0015174c0d94540681049713042a Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Todd,
=A0
Not a bad idea.=A0 But in this case, we only want to permanently plug = the hole in the rear side housing.=A0 We've got the machinist working o= n a bolt.=A0 He loves a good=A0challenge.=A0 ;-)
=A0
Mark=A0=A0=A0=A0

On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 12:31 PM, Todd Bartrim <= span dir=3D"ltr"><bartrim@gmail.com= > wrote:
Hi Mark;
=A0=A0=A0 I did something similar. I wanted to use fitting= s that were common to me in my line of work as due to the very low cost to = me (free) for a high quality product, I would be more inclined to simply ch= ange out all hoses during each annual. This meant installing an NPTxTube Sw= agelok fitting into each port.
=A0=A0=A0 On several of the ports I had the same issue where there wasn'= ;t enough material to drill & tap out to the next size up and the close= st size was just too close to the existing size to cut a decent thread. I t= ried cutting the thread anyways, then I used Devcon plastic steel (same as = JB Weld) as a thread sealant and installed the desired fitting. Next day I = put a large wrench on it and could not budge it. I added a snipe to the wre= nch and still could not budge it. So I did several other similar fittings t= he same way. None ever leaked during 50 flight hours and many more on the g= round.
=A0=A0=A0 If removal is ever required an oxy/acetylene torch used to heat t= he center of the fitting (not the housing) to red hot (or close) will break= down the plastic weld and fitting will thread right out and plastic weld r= esidue will just be an easily removable crumbly powder. This won't dama= ge the housing if done with care and the operating temp of the engine will = never come close to breaking down the plastic steel.
=A0=A0=A0 In your case you can just use a commonly available bolt that is c= lose enough and use that to plug your port.

Todd
RV9 Turbo13B
=



On Thu, 2010-12-09 at 18:48 -0600, Mark Steitle wrote:
Yes, but welding on the housing could warp it ren= dering it junk. =A0We don't want to risk it. =A0We're moving forwar= d on having a bolt made. =A0


Mark

On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 5:15 PM, Bill Bradburry &l= t;bbradburry@= bellsouth.net> wrote:
Can it be welded up, r= edrilled, and retapped?

=A0

Bill B

=A0

From: Rotary mo= tors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] = On Behalf Of Ed Anderson
Sent: Thursday, December 09= , 2010 10:29 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject:<= /b> [FlyRotary] Re: Source for 18mm x 2.0 Bolt


=A0

Ah, I had missed the part about already tapping the hole with t= he 18x2.0.=A0 Yes, that sort of puts you needing a 18x2.0 bolt.


=
=A0


Ed


=A0


From: Mark Steitle

Sent: Thursday,= December 09, 2010 7:37 AM


To: Rotary motors in airc= raft


Subject:[FlyRot= ary] Re: Source for 18mm x 2.0 Bolt


=A0


Ed,=A0

=A0


I totally agree, except were you don't have much other choi= ce, like when plugging the heater port. =A0There isn't enough material = to drill & tap to a common size. =A0The 18mm was a good fit, and would = have worked out great if we had used a more common pitch, like 1.5. =A0Who = would have known that they make taps for non-existent bolt sizes.


=A0


Mark

On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 6:15 AM, Ed Anderson <eanderson@carolina.rr.com> wrote:

I would avoid the "have it made route" if possible.= =A0 If for some reason you ever needed a replacement, you'd have to hav= e it made again.=A0 Although, I must admit, I can't imagine what would = ruin an 18x2.0 bolt that wouldn't trash the engine - but you never know= {:>).


=A0


I try to stick with easily available standard sizes if at all p= ossible for just about anything on the aircraft - so I can run down to loca= l Auto store when away from home and get the part if needed.


=A0


Ed


=A0


From: Mark Steitle

Sent: Thursday,= December 09, 2010 6:35 AM


To: Rotary motors in airc= raft


Subject:[FlyRot= ary] Re: Source for 18mm x 2.0 Bolt


=A0


From the responses received on this it looks like the best rout= e is to go see the machinist and have one made. =A0Oh, and throw the 18mm x= 2.0 tap in the trash. =A0

=A0


Mark

On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 9:26 PM, Dave <david.staten@gmail.com> wrote:=

Bought something bigger, cut it down... filed the threads into = a taper at the tip and played with it carefully so it didnt cross thread. T= hats what I did with our first attempt at a block, when we put an aluminum = adapter on the oil pump pad for oil return and PSRU feed.

Later gen used the stock oil return fitting with an AN adapter on it. <= br>
On 12/8/2010 3:40 PM, Mark Steitle wrote:

Kelly,=A0


=A0


Short story is that this is the tap size I had handy that fit t= he hole.=A0 We're trying to plug the=A0heater port on the rear housing.= =A0 Who would=A0have thought=A0that an=A018mm x 2.0=A0would be=A0an oddball= size!=A0 We found a place that sells 18mm x 2.0 nuts, but they tell us tha= t nobody=A0makes an 18 x 2.0 bolt.=A0 That seems=A0hard to believe.=A0 =A0= =A0


=A0


Mark=A0


On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 3:26 PM, Kelly Troyer <keltro@att.net> wrote:

=
Mark,


=A0=A0 Try the link below.............What in the world is it f= or !!.................There may be other sources but


=A0


this is the first one I found.................


=A0=A0=A0 =A0http://www= .fullermetric.com/products/hex/din933_931-8.8hex_head_cap_screw.html#14-20<= /a>


=A0


Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA JD2"<= /font> (Eventually)

"= 13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTRAL&q= uot;_Backplate/Oil Manifold

"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo

=A0


=A0

From: Richard S= ohn <res12@fair= point.net>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Wed, December 8, 2010= 2:57:49 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Source for 18mm x 2.0 Bolt

<= /blockquote>
You will have a hard time for that. M18 x 2.5 = is standard and first choice fine is 18 x 1.5 . You may have to get it made= .


=A0


Richard Sohn
N2071U=


----- Original Message -----

From: Mark Steitle

To: Rotary motors in airc= raft


Sent: Wednesday= , December 08, 2010 1:49 PM


Subject: [FlyRo= tary] Source for 18mm x 2.0 Bolt


=A0


Anyone know where I can purchase an 18mm x 2.0 bolt?=A0
=A0

=A0


=A0


=A0






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