Mailing List flyrotary@lancaironline.net Message #52980
From: Mark Steitle <msteitle@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Tangential Muffler
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2010 09:53:35 -0600
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Ed, 

Can you run the numbers (length) for 1.8" ID tubing.  I'm assuming the length would be a bit less to account for the larger diameter pipe.  The reason I ask is that I can get 1 7/8" bends on Ebay pretty cheap.  But that's the smallest size I find.  Otherwise I'll be shopping at Burns $tainless.  

Mark

On Sat, Nov 20, 2010 at 9:48 AM, Ed Anderson <eanderson@carolina.rr.com> wrote:
Welcome, Mark
 
As I said, the results seem reasonable to me - and yes, you woke me up but had not had my 2nd cup of coffee {:>)..  EVO should read Exhaust Valve Opening - my bad {:>)
 
Ed

Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2010 10:39 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Tangential Muffler

Ed, 

Thanks for waking up and posting that spreadsheet.  It looks like I need 1.5 ID pipes and 34.5" long pipes if I want max power at 6500.  That would be a nice sweet spot to shoot for.  

One question.  On your spreadsheet you define EVO = Exhaust Valve Closing.  Did you mean to say, EVO = Exhaust Valve Opening?  

Thanks,
Mark

On Sat, Nov 20, 2010 at 8:55 AM, Ed Anderson <eanderson@carolina.rr.com> wrote:
Hi Mark,
 
From what I have read and heard, a well designed exhaust system for a PP is more of a challenge than for any other porting scheme.  As Lynn has reported, the PP is even more effected by any back pressure in the exhaust system than our regular rotary engines.
 
That said, I dug out a pretty good book on intakes and exhausts (yes, they understand and address Finite Amplitude Waves in the exhaust system).    Anyhow I thought I would extract what appears to be some interesting insights for exhausts in general.  There was formulas for getting a rough estimate of header lengths and diameters - now these were for piston engines but it would appear the dynamics of the pulse turning would be the same for the rotary.
 
I put the calculations into a spreadsheet (attached) and the results do not seem unreasonable -  one thing I don't know the effect of is the generally higher exhaust temp of the rotary and what effect it might have on the numbers.  Also I don't know your PP port timing - so the one used is the factory Mazda PP Exhaust port closing from Paul Yaw's web site - 73 Deg BBDC.
 
There appear to be two primary power enhancing benefits from a well designed exhaust system.
 
1.  Minimum restriction to exhaust gas flow - apparently velocity is critical so diameter of pipes is important - apparently optimum velocity is between Mach .45 and Mach .5 (got a Mach meter handy {:>))
 
2.  Scavenging effect of the reflected exhaust FAW to aid in pulling more mixture into the combustion chamber.
 
The well design system appear to maximize both attributes but generally for only a limited rpm range.
 
Engine displacement, RPM and intake/exhaust over lap appear to be the major engine factors in determining the desired exhaust parameters.
 
Ok, here are some extracted information - none of it necessarily new, but perhaps useful to review (even thought I know you know it already)
 
Exhaust tuning works by using the proper header pipe length to time the arrival of the "suction" (expansion) wave reflected back from the end of the header to arrive at the engine exhaust port during the overlap period - between Intake Value Opening and Exhaust Valve Closing. 
 
If the scavenging wave is wide enough (time wise) and the overlap (intake/exhaust) is short enough (probably not your case), the exhaust system will remain in tune throughout a wide rpm range.
 
High out put, High speed engines with long overlaps periods require much more precise tubing lengths to optimize power.  As power levels increase, the margin for error decreases.
 
Collectors:  (Length and Diameter - see spreadsheet for some examples)
 
1.  Longer collectors force the torque peak at lower rpm  because at higher rpm the reflected wave from the end of the longer collector does not get back in time to help scavenge the combustion chamber and vice versa for short collectors.  A "reverse funnel" opening into the collector appears to broaden the reflected wave and broadens the effective rpm range - but reduces the amplitude of the wave.
 
2.  The Amplitude of the reflected wave is dependent on the difference in cross sectional area between the pipe and collector.  A smaller dia collector represents less area change and therefore reflects back a lower amplitude wave and vice versa for a large diameter collector
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
One interesting thing I read was the notion that in some cases, perhaps the headers should NOT be of equal length - IF you want a broader power range.  The theory is that with slightly different lengths  the scavenging effect would be spread across a broader range and be less "peaky".  I had never hear of potential benefit of unequal headers before, but it would seem to make sense if you want a less peaky power point.  But, if you want the bigger boost near one rpm range then equal length headers would appear to  apply
 
So there, that's what you get for waking me up.
 
Ed
 
Edward L. Anderson
Anderson Electronic Enterprises LLC
305 Reefton Road
Weddington, NC 28104
http://www.andersonee.com
http://www.eicommander.com

Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2010 6:32 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Tangential Muffler

Guys,

It has been way too quiet on the list lately, so I thought I would post this report.  Yes, another muffler experiment.  Seems I can't get beyond the exhaust system.  

I did an experiment yesterday... with interesting results.  While I am very pleased with the muffling qualities of the tangential muffler, I have been suspicious of it being responsible for the less-than-expected performance of my p-port 20b.  So, I removed the tangential muffler and replaced it with the previous 3-into-1 exhaust w/DNA muffler that I had been running for about 100 hrs.  

First the bad news.  The 3-into-1 system is much louder, to the point that it almost overwhelms my Zulu.  I haven't shattered any windows, but little children and small animals have been reported running for for their mothers.  FWIW, I'm running the stock exhaust splitters that came in the 20B housings. 

The positive news is that I picked up 10-12 mph on top speed!  So, it confirms my suspicions that the tangential muffler is too restrictive for my engine.  While definitely not optimal, the 3-into-1 design is clearly better than the tangential muffler when it comes to making power.    

So, my plan is to build another exhaust from 625 inconel, making all three runners 31.5".  I haven't decided what I will use for a muffler.  I'll report back when I have more data.  

Mark

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