X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail-ew0-f52.google.com ([209.85.215.52] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.10) with ESMTP id 4579816 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 15 Nov 2010 12:08:53 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.215.52; envelope-from=rwstracy@gmail.com Received: by ewy4 with SMTP id 4so1269056ewy.25 for ; Mon, 15 Nov 2010 09:08:18 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:sender:received :in-reply-to:references:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject :from:to:content-type; bh=KFCAtuTolEp7U+3OkkASfYEf+k0HGBT38RoGxS72+i8=; b=powFTTW0kMb+w5oje67heFWFzE1SNY7rl2uNrQiC5oOCkB+Np7r/6Fu08wqYSJl8eW ZAzxLX9NG0+G+tLK7Id4dczi+2O/BZmTqYYaDSbpPj7yoV1QCI1SQ4CLN7gFDhmZHavf DZpFSacAYuIMZc9DZRVDlARZ1TeDrDJZ/+rHE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; b=ZN5/fr6CzayinYV9f+9ZRhm9me50+wT0p3Rnm/LdRVVbMwuG0be9+ociTbCAOldm3+ QGnDcS5hQ0kO1t0zOIL7ax0Z1d/j9DxiYWQOHbGxw4omZowSkq95KMGFEerIAzuzI3w7 TnGWT5izbH0Wzw1s2r+YTtK7At/HuI+Fx/6SI= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.73.8 with SMTP id u8mr5161682wed.103.1289840897288; Mon, 15 Nov 2010 09:08:17 -0800 (PST) Sender: rwstracy@gmail.com Received: by 10.216.21.145 with HTTP; Mon, 15 Nov 2010 09:08:17 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2010 12:08:17 -0500 X-Google-Sender-Auth: kTFnj6Rj9Ra-oila-wwWE0oyzoA Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Hey are those 304 Stainless staples...(from David) From: Tracy To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00504502c9bd7fff6104951a7cd5 --00504502c9bd7fff6104951a7cd5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 This is a common misunderstanding about Speed / Density EFI systems. A vacuum leak in a system of this type will not cause any problem other than an idle speed which can't be adjusted far enough down. Besides, at full throttle, there IS no vacuum. Tracy On Mon, Nov 15, 2010 at 11:12 AM, Bill Bradburry wrote: > Hi Mark, > > > > You can check for vacuum leaks by squirting starting fluid or carb cleaner > around the intake system while someone is holding the brakes. > > > > What is the airspeed when you hit the wall? You say the speed will > gradually start to bleed off. Do you mean that the speed initially > increases by some value, then falls back? How much? Does the engine rpm > maintain during this phase? Are you at WOT and just using the prop to > control the engine speed at this time? > > > > Bill B > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] *On > Behalf Of *Mark Steitle > > *Sent:* Monday, November 15, 2010 9:09 AM > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Hey are those 304 Stainless staples...(from > David) > > > > OK, Doug, I'll post my weekend update. > > > > As some of you may know, I have had troubles getting my 20B to run as it > should. Problems started about 3 years back when I decided to convert from > the stock CAS to the Renesis style CAS. While I did have limited success, > it was very sensitive to alignment and air gap of the CAS sensor, and > possibly some other issues that I am not smart enough to figure out. I had > trouble getting it to run above 5800 rpm. > > > > About a month ago I decided that enough was enough and I called Tracy to > say that I wanted my EC-2 converted back to the original configuration. I > sent it back to Tracy who made the mod and upgraded the software to the > latest version. I got it back on Friday and was anxious to see how it would > perform. I installed the upgraded EC-2 on Saturday. Yea, it started on the > third prop blade and ran quite well, although the Mixture knob was not at > "12 O'clock", it ran very smooth. Following the instructions in the manual, > first thing I did was to adjust Mode 3 to compensate for my larger 60# > injectors. Now it was running really well in the upper rpm/map ranges. A > little adjusting of the lower addresses using Mode 1 & 9 and it was idling > down around 1500 rpm. (Keep in mind that this is a p-port motor.) The > exhaust tone at low idle is hard to describe...it is enough to send chills > up your leg. ;-0 > > > > Sunday, after a some more tuning, I got it to where it would almost do 7000 > rpm static. (Keep in mind that Lockhart, TX is a small country town and > this was Sunday morning. You could probably hear me tuning my engine all > over town.) Confident that it would stay running, I decided it was time to > fly. It climbed out at 6700 rpm as smooth as could be. There was a 5000' > ceiling, so I couldn't climb too high, but the air was silky smooth. I flew > a couple of patterns, climbing as I circled. At 3500 msl I headed east and > did some tuning with Mode 9 at different MAP settings. Up and down the > scale, fine-tuning each address. She was running like a fine Swiss watch, > or to put it another way, like a rotary should. > > > > Issues: > > 1) MAP Readings - It appears that I may have a vacuum leak as the MAP at > idle is reading 17.4". Next trip to the airport I will double-check to make > sure that I got both lines plugged into the EC-2 properly, and check for > leaks elsewhere. It is amazing that it idles as well as it does under these > circumstances. Note that rather than using a throttle body, I am using a > slide-throttle which is located just a few inches from the intake ports. > So, the vacuum lines are plugged into the unused oil injection ports in the > rotor housings (no oil injection pump). Could this account for the unusual > MAP readings? I do have a plenum, but since it is open to the atmosphere, I > can't measure MAP from there. I think there are others that use this scheme > with success. > > 2) Performance - I seem to hit a speed wall at around 2000-2100 prop > rpm. I can set the prop higher and get a higher engine rpm, but the higher > rpm doesn't translate into higher speeds. The speed will gradually > start bleeding off. Not sure why this is happening. Could be tuning, or > intake/exhaust design, or just a characteristic of the M/T prop. Or, maybe > the engine isn't making enough horsepower to push the airframe through the > air any faster. It is annoying though, knowing that you have another 1500 > rpm on tap but can't use it. > > > > 3) Alternator - the voltage reading on main alternator is low. This is a > new alternator which has been converted to external regulator. I'll try > adjusting the regulator (again). > > > > All in all, a very successful weekend. As usual, more issues to sort out > though. > > > > Mark S. > > Lancair ES, N/A P-port 20B > > Lockhart, TX > > > > > > > > > On Sun, Nov 14, 2010 at 11:20 PM, wrote: > > Rodger that Doug, I just went through all the paperwork again to make sure > all ducks in a row, then shot one of the ducks & had dinner, a sweet red > wine marinade is the secret to good tender duck you know. David. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: DLOMHEIM@aol.com > To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" > Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2010 7:09:45 PM > Subject: [FlyRotary] Hey are those 304 Stainless staples...(from David) > > Na...gotta be 321...don't you think David?! I'm still hoping to read about > some flying exploits from this weekend, from someone on the list! Surely > all our aviators weren't just sitting around watching football all day like > us gimpy / DNIF guys!!!! :) > > > > Mucho congrats on getting your project to the point of final inspection > prior to first flight! Take your time, be safe, and enjoy the moment! > Then post some pictures / data of the big event on the list! :) > > > > Doug > > > --00504502c9bd7fff6104951a7cd5 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This is a common misunderstanding about Speed / Density EFI systems.=A0 A v= acuum leak in a system of this type will not cause any problem other than a= n idle speed which can't be adjusted far enough down.=A0 Besides, at fu= ll throttle, there IS no vacuum.

Tracy

On Mon, Nov 15, 2010 at 11:12 A= M, Bill Bradburry <bbradburry@bellsouth.net> wrote:

Hi Mark,

=A0

You can check = for vacuum leaks by squirting starting fluid or carb cleaner around the intake system while som= eone is holding the brakes.

=A0

What is the ai= rspeed when you hit the wall?=A0 You say the speed will gradually start to bleed off.=A0 Do you mean that the speed initially increases by some value, then falls back? =A0= How much?=A0 Does the engine rpm maintain during this phase?=A0 Are you at WOT and just using the prop to control the engine speed at this time?

=A0

Bill B<= /font>

=A0

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:fl= yrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Mark Steitle


Sent: Monday, November 15,= 2010 9:09 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: H= ey are those 304 Stainless staples...(from David)

=A0

OK, Doug,=A0I'll post my weekend update.=A0

=A0

As some of you may know, I have had troubles getting= my 20B to run as it should.=A0 Problems started about 3 years back when I decided to convert from the stock CAS to the Renesis style CAS.=A0 While I did have limited success, it was very sensitive to alignment and air gap of the CAS sensor, = and possibly some other issues that I am not smart enough to figure out.=A0 I had trouble getting it to run above 5800 rpm.=A0

=A0

About a month ago I decided that enough was enough a= nd I called Tracy to say that I wanted my EC-2 converted back to the original configuration.=A0=A0I sent it back to Tracy who made the mod and upgraded the software to the latest version.=A0=A0I got it back on Friday and was anxious to see how it would perform.=A0 I installed the upgraded=A0EC-2 on Saturday.=A0=A0Yea, it started on the third prop blade and ran quite well, although the Mixture knob was not at "12=A0O'clock", it ran very smooth.=A0 Following the instructions in the manual, first thing I did was to=A0adjust=A0Mode 3=A0to=A0compensate for my larger 60# injectors.=A0 Now it was running really well in the upper rpm/map ranges.=A0 A little adjusting of the lower addresses using=A0Mode 1=A0& 9 and=A0it was idling down=A0around 1500 rpm.=A0 (Keep in mind that this is a=A0p-port motor.)=A0=A0The exhaust tone at low idle is hard to describe...it=A0is enough to send chills up your leg.=A0 ;-0=A0

=A0

Sunday, after a=A0some more tuning, I got it to wher= e it would=A0almost do=A07000 rpm static.=A0 (Keep in mind that=A0Lockhart, TX is a small country town and this was Sunday morning.=A0 You could probably hear me tuning my engine all over town.)=A0 Confident that it would stay running, I decided it was time to fly.=A0=A0It climbed out at 6700 rpm as smooth as could be.=A0=A0There was a 5000' ceiling, so I couldn't climb too high, b= ut the air=A0was silky smooth.=A0 I flew a couple of patterns, climbing as I circled.=A0 At 3500 msl I headed east and did some tuning with Mode 9 at different MAP settings.=A0 Up and down the scale,=A0fine-tuning each address.=A0 She was running like=A0a fine Swiss watch, or to put it another way, like a rotary should.=A0=A0

=A0

Issues:=A0

1)=A0 MAP Readings - It appears that I may have a va= cuum leak as the=A0MAP at idle is reading 17.4".=A0 Next trip to the airport I will double-check to make sure that=A0I got both lines plugged into the EC-= 2 properly,=A0and check for leaks elsewhere.=A0 It is amazing that it=A0idles as well as it does under these circumstances.=A0=A0Note that rather than using a throttle body,=A0I am using a slide-throttle which is located=A0just a few inches from the intake ports.=A0 So,=A0the vacuum lines are plugged into the unused oil injection ports in the rotor housings (no oil injection pump).=A0=A0Could this=A0account for the=A0unusual MAP readings?=A0 I do have a plenum, but since=A0it is open to the atmosphere, I can't=A0measure MAP from there.=A0 I think there are others that use this scheme with success.=A0

2)=A0Performance - I seem to hit a speed wall at aro= und 2000-2100 prop rpm.=A0=A0I can=A0set=A0the prop=A0higher and=A0get a=A0higher engine rpm, but the=A0higher rpm doesn't translate into high= er speeds.=A0 The speed=A0will gradually start=A0bleeding off.=A0 Not sure why this is happening.=A0 Could be tuning, or intake/exhaust design, or=A0just a characteristic of the M/T prop.=A0=A0Or, maybe the engine isn't making enough horsepower to push the airframe through the air any faster.=A0 It is annoying though, knowing that you have another 1500 rpm on tap but can't use it.

=A0

3) Alternator - the voltage reading on=A0main altern= ator is low.=A0 This is a new alternator which has been converted to external regulator.=A0 I'll try adjusting the regulator (again).=A0

=A0

All in all, a very successful weekend.=A0 As usual, = more=A0issues to sort out though.=A0

=A0

Mark S.

Lancair ES, N/A P-port 20B

Lockhart, TX

=A0

=A0


=A0

On Sun, Nov 14, 2010 at 11:20 PM, <hoursaway1@comcast.net>= ; wrote:

Rodger that Doug, I just went through all the paperwork again to make sure all duc= ks in a row, then shot one of the ducks & had dinner, a sweet red wine marinade is the secret to good tender duck you know.=A0 David.
----- Original Message -----
From: DLOMHEIM@aol.co= m
To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" <flyrot= ary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2010 7:09:45 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Hey are those 304 Stainless staples...(from David)

Na...gotta b= e 321...don't you think David?!=A0 I'm still hoping=A0to read=A0about some flying exploits from this weekend, from someone on the list!=A0=A0Surely all our aviators weren't=A0just sitting around watching football all day like us gimpy /= DNIF guys!!!!=A0=A0=A0:)=A0=A0

=A0

Mucho congra= ts on getting your project to the point of final inspection prior to first flight!=A0 Take your time, be safe, and enjoy=A0the moment!=A0 Then=A0post some pictures / data of the big event on the list!=A0 :)=A0=A0=A0=A0

=A0

Doug<= /font>

=A0


--00504502c9bd7fff6104951a7cd5--