X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from imr-da06.mx.aol.com ([205.188.169.203] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.10) with ESMTP id 4575260 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 11 Nov 2010 12:01:16 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=205.188.169.203; envelope-from=Bktrub@aol.com Received: from imo-ma03.mx.aol.com (imo-ma03.mx.aol.com [64.12.78.138]) by imr-da06.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id oABH0Z0i013426 for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2010 12:00:35 -0500 Received: from Bktrub@aol.com by imo-ma03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.9.) id q.d54.7981dbcf (55831) for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2010 12:00:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtprly-mc01.mx.aol.com (smtprly-mc01.mx.aol.com [64.12.95.97]) by cia-md05.mx.aol.com (v129.5) with ESMTP id MAILCIAMD058-d3ca4cdc212320f; Thu, 11 Nov 2010 12:00:31 -0500 Received: from webmail-m071 (webmail-m071.sim.aol.com [64.12.141.17]) by smtprly-mc01.mx.aol.com (v129.4) with ESMTP id MAILSMTPRLYMC014-d3ca4cdc212320f; Thu, 11 Nov 2010 12:00:19 -0500 References: To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Improved performance of my new (2009) intake manifold Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2010 12:00:19 -0500 X-AOL-IP: 108.3.31.54 In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 From: bktrub@aol.com X-MB-Message-Type: User Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8CD4FD90E6B8ADE_1194_1EA45_webmail-m071.sysops.aol.com" X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 32843-STANDARD Received: from 108.3.31.54 by webmail-m071.sysops.aol.com (64.12.141.17) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Thu, 11 Nov 2010 12:00:19 -0500 Message-Id: <8CD4FD90E62055A-1194-CD6B@webmail-m071.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-SENDER: Bktrub@aol.com ----------MB_8CD4FD90E6B8ADE_1194_1EA45_webmail-m071.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Yeah, I get the impression that I'm staging at a pretty high MP, 28 lb pri= maries, 40 lb secondaries. Maybe I should set my staging point down to aro= und 19 inches MP? Brian Trubee -----Original Message----- From: Mark Steitle To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Thu, Nov 11, 2010 8:22 am Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Improved performance of my new (2009) intake mani= fold Brian,=20 According to the EC-2 MAP table on pg 29 of the EC-2 manual, address 104= corresponds to 30" Hg. Each address changes 1/2" MAP, and you're staging= 14 addresses below this, so my guess is that you're staging around 23" Hg= MAP. If that is the case, your engine may be going lean as you would be= running only on the primaries below 23". What size injectors are you run= ning? =20 Mark S. On Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 9:53 AM, wrote: I'm staging up pretty high- at fuel MAP station 90, I think that's around= 19 inches of manifold, but I am not absolutely sure because the manifold= sensor channel is not dead on in it's calibration. That's why I asked abo= ut what others are using for a scale factor, low end offset, etc for their= manifold pressure. The EM2 reads and uses each manifold pressure as an= absolute value, but displays it according to whatever settings you have= put in for it. So, whatever value that corresponds to 90 on the MAP table= is where it stages. It stages smoothly on the ground, but in the air it= starts doing all sorts of backfiring and popping that gets all sorts of= unwanted attention from the ground. I can only imagine what observers on= teh ground are thinking when they hear the plane start backfiring.=20 =20 My EC2 is on the left side panel in front of the throttle, which is moun= ted on the side of the cockpit. I was wearing flight gloves and had switch= ed from A to B controller. The switches are so close together that hitting= one will hit the other and you will not feel that through a gloved finger= or thumb. I already installed a switch guard, and will also have a rubber= band holding it in the off postion. Not elegant, but effective, cheap, an= d installation an removal is a snap( Ha! I make funny pun!) =20 Brian Trubee -----Original Message----- From: Bill Bradburry To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Thu, Nov 11, 2010 4:51 am Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Improved performance of my new (2009) intake mani= fold That is the second report I have seen of someone hitting the cold start sw= itch while in flight. The first time there was discussion about switch gu= ards, etc., which I decided I didn=E2=80=99t need. My cold start switch= is not located anywhere on the panel where I should have my hands unless= I am changing the mixture. But now with two reports, I am beginning to= wonder what I am missing. Where are your cold start switches located and what were you doing when yo= u accidentally hit them? =20 I just moved my staging point from 15 inches to 16 inches because 15 was= right on top of 3800 rpm where the EC-2 changes map tables. =20 Bill B =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Be= half Of bktrub@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2010 9:52 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Improved performance of my new (2009) intake mani= fold =20 Interesting manifold. Are you still using the VDO fuel pressure sender? I= had heard that it might not be suitable for use with fuel, I am still usi= ng mine at present however.=20 =20 I went up today for a few laps at 3000 over Paine Field. The engine ran we= ll below the staging point, but started stumbling when above the staging= point. It ran smoothly through the staging transition on the ground, but= when in the air I could not tell by the mixture monitor if it was lean or= rich. I tried leaning it out and richening it up, but results were inconc= lusive so I stayed below the staging point for the remainder of the flight= . Temps were down around 130 degrees at 4800 RPM and 110 mph, MP was not= noted.=20 =20 I accidently hit the cold start switch while on downwind with two other pl= anes ahead of me, the tower told me to go around on final, but the plane= ahead turned off onto the taxiway just in time so I told the tower that= I would really like to land, so they cleared me. The engine died as I tur= ned off onto the taxiway and then I noticed the cold start switch. The fir= st order of business was making and installing a switch guard for the cold= start switch. I'm also going to pre-load the switch with a rubber band so= it stays in the off position unless I'm pushing it on, and can just pull= the rubber band off of it if I need to shut down a set of injectors and= run the remaining injectors on cold start.(limp home mode for failed inje= ctor.) =20 The fuel self transfering issue was resolved by installing manual valve on= the transfer line between the tanks.=20 =20 Brian Trubee =20 =20 -----Original Message----- From: Dennis Havarlah To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Wed, Nov 10, 2010 12:27 pm Subject: [FlyRotary] Improved performance of my new (2009) intake manifold As some of you know I started flying my RV-7A with a cut - off Renesis int= ake manifold. In 2009 I installed an new intake designed to route pressur= e waves from the closing of rotor #1's intake into rotor #2 just before ro= tor #2's intake closed. After using the new intake for over a year I am= still very happy with it's performance. =20 I gained about 15 mph TAS at the same altitude and manifold pressure My static engine rpm increased 300 to 350 rpm. My takeoffs are faster and shorter with noticeable increase in acceleratio= n My climb rate increased My oil and water cooling is more critical now because I make more HP. =20 But - I must confess I don't believe the manifold can be reproduced econom= ically. It's just too complicated. I also believe it should have slightly shorter intake runners to increase= the performance at higher RPM. Decreasing the intake runner length proba= bly would require complete new geometry of the system. =20 I have another concept for designing a Renesis intake that using a reflect= ed wave from Rotor #1 returning to Rotor #1 . =20 I believe it would be much easier to build and small enough to fit into th= e James rotorary cowl but because my intake works well I am not moving ahe= ad with completing the design and building it. =20 Dennis Haverlah =20 =20 =20 -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List= .html =20 ----------MB_8CD4FD90E6B8ADE_1194_1EA45_webmail-m071.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8"
Yeah, I get the impressio= n that I'm staging at a pretty high MP, 28 lb primaries, 40 lb secondaries= . Maybe I should set my staging point down to around 19 inches MP?<= /div>
 
Brian Trubee



-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Steitle <msteitle@gmail.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Thu, Nov 11, 2010 8:22 am
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Improved performance of my new (2009) intake mani= fold

Brian, 

According to the EC-2 MAP table on pg 29 of the EC-2 manual, address= 104 corresponds to 30" Hg.  Each address changes 1/2" MAP, and you'r= e staging 14 addresses below this, so my guess is that you're staging arou= nd 23" Hg MAP.  If that is the case, your engine may be going lean as= you would be running only on the primaries below 23".  What size inj= ectors are you running?  

Mark S.

On Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 9:53 AM, = <bktrub@aol.com> wrote:=
I'm staging up pretty high- at fuel MAP station 90, I think<= /EM> that's around 19 inches of manifold, but I am not absolutely sure bec= ause the manifold sensor channel is not dead on in it's calibration. That'= s why I asked about what others are using for a scale factor, low end offs= et, etc for their manifold pressure. The EM2 reads and uses  each man= ifold pressure as an absolute value, but displays it according to whatever= settings you have put in for it. So, whatever value that corresponds= to 90 on the MAP table is where it stages. It stages smoothly on the grou= nd, but in the air it starts doing all sorts of backfiring and popping tha= t gets all sorts of unwanted attention from the ground. I can only imagine= what observers on teh ground are thinking when they hear the plane start= backfiring.
 
My EC2 is on the left side  panel  in front of the throttle= , which is mounted on the side of the cockpit. I was wearing flight gloves= and had switched from A to B controller. The switches are so close togeth= er that hitting one will hit the other and you will not feel that through= a gloved finger or thumb. I already installed a switch guard, and will al= so have a rubber band holding it in the off postion. Not elegant, but effe= ctive, cheap, and installation an removal is a snap( Ha! I make funny pun!= )
 
Brian Trubee


-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Bradburry <bbrad= burry@bellsouth.net>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Thu, Nov 11, 2010 4:51 am
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Improved performance of my new (2009) intake mani= fold

That is the second= report I have seen of someone hitting the cold start switch while in flig= ht.  The first time there was discussion about switch guards, etc.,= which I decided I didn=E2=80=99t need.  My cold start switch is not= located anywhere on the panel where I should have my hands unless I am ch= anging the mixture.  But now with two reports, I am beginning to wond= er what I am missing.
Where are your cold= start switches located and what were you doing when you accidentally hit= them?
 
I just moved my sta= ging point from 15 inches to 16 inches because 15 was right on top of 3800= rpm where the EC-2 changes map tables.
 
Bill B
 
From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of b= ktrub@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, November= 10, 2010 9:52 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircr= aft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re:= Improved performance of my new (2009) intake manifold
 
Interesting manif= old. Are you still using the VDO fuel pressure sender? I had heard that it= might not be suitable for use with fuel, I am still using mine at present= however.
 
I went up today= for a few laps at 3000 over Paine Field. The engine ran well below the st= aging point, but started stumbling when above the staging point. It ran sm= oothly through the staging transition on the ground, but when in the air= I could not tell by the mixture monitor if it was lean or rich. I tried= leaning it out and richening it up, but results were inconclusive so I st= ayed below the staging point for the remainder of the flight. Temps were= down around 130 degrees at 4800 RPM and 110 mph, MP was not noted.
 
I accidently hit= the cold start switch while on downwind with two other planes ahead of me= , the tower told me to go around on final, but the plane ahead turned off= onto the taxiway just in time so I told the tower that I would really lik= e to land, so they cleared me. The engine died as I turned off onto the ta= xiway and then I noticed the cold start switch. The first order of busines= s was making and installing a switch guard for the cold start switch. I'm= also going to pre-load the switch with a rubber band so it stays in the= off position unless I'm pushing it on, and can just pull the rubber band= off of it if I need to shut down a set of injectors and run the remaining= injectors on cold start.(limp home mode for failed injector.)
 
The fuel self tra= nsfering issue was resolved by installing manual valve on the transfer lin= e between the tanks.
 
Brian Trubee
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Dennis Havarlah <clou= duster@austin.rr.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Wed, Nov 10, 2010 12:27 pm
Subject: [FlyRotary] Improved performance of my new (2009) intake manifold=
As some of you kn= ow I started flying my RV-7A with a cut - off Renesis intake manifold.&nbs= p; In 2009 I installed an new intake designed to route pressure waves=  from the closing of rotor #1's intake into rotor #2 just before= rotor #2's intake closed.  After using the new intake for over a yea= r I am still very happy with it's performance.
 
I gained about 15= mph TAS at the same altitude and manifold pressure
My static engine= rpm increased 300 to 350 rpm.
My takeoffs are= faster and shorter with noticeable increase in acceleration=
My climb rate inc= reased
My oil and water= cooling is more critical now because I make more HP.
 
But - I must conf= ess I don't believe the manifold can be reproduced economically.  It'= s just too complicated.
I also believe it= should have slightly shorter intake runners to increase the performance= at higher RPM.  Decreasing the intake runner length probably would= require complete new geometry of the system.
 
I have another co= ncept for designing a Renesis intake that using a reflected wave from= Rotor #1 returning to Rotor #1 .  
I believe it woul= d be much easier to build and small enough to fit into the James rotorary= cowl but because my intake works well I am not moving ahead with completi= ng the design and building it.
 
Dennis Haverlah
 
 
 
 

----------MB_8CD4FD90E6B8ADE_1194_1EA45_webmail-m071.sysops.aol.com--