X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail-ew0-f52.google.com ([209.85.215.52] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.10) with ESMTP id 4575212 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 11 Nov 2010 11:23:17 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.215.52; envelope-from=msteitle@gmail.com Received: by ewy6 with SMTP id 6so483880ewy.25 for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2010 08:22:40 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:received:in-reply-to :references:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=Xt+G0FQqraHaRhWCCBSOp+5kpI3hVq+szs1w99VmIjA=; b=HKsNXXVDF80h9mdXI325LJo9DV43HnIJ5LkZc+U3Frg+ZQGbvFhgOBuSU93UU+X4PQ /4KGJ9OjXvIwaXuaaw+y83XGdF2Qx08/4wOB2A9GyON+FKrBIKCNFeV0fiyOVImB6bh6 Y1wgHxxdhV+RdJR4QUdA8yep1I8EC69YkX2uU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=Ow6M+X58+sMSe5jDTsLP1oylAwru8oEmMvOlGjmoP3SZwArUqrkUkCdMZQXcsRy/Yb V6vaSIz4149j2GSgE/ZlsXOKxT/PNrENMjERPZ9RqPsWMzSbZGI36SdF0FENVkJRiUlo LL746iK4vRphizjAMw/3Tf+aY2YZV+gYbQrJ0= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.213.20.20 with SMTP id d20mr1933726ebb.51.1289492559910; Thu, 11 Nov 2010 08:22:39 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.213.36.17 with HTTP; Thu, 11 Nov 2010 08:22:39 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2010 10:22:39 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Improved performance of my new (2009) intake manifold From: Mark Steitle To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015174be444f9577e0494c96125 --0015174be444f9577e0494c96125 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Brian, According to the EC-2 MAP table on pg 29 of the EC-2 manual, address 104 corresponds to 30" Hg. Each address changes 1/2" MAP, and you're staging 1= 4 addresses below this, so my guess is that you're staging around 23" Hg MAP. If that is the case, your engine may be going lean as you would be running only on the primaries below 23". What size injectors are you running? Mark S. On Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 9:53 AM, wrote: > I'm staging up pretty high- at fuel MAP station 90, I *think* that's > around 19 inches of manifold, but I am not absolutely sure because the > manifold sensor channel is not dead on in it's calibration. That's why I > asked about what others are using for a scale factor, low end offset, etc > for their manifold pressure. The EM2 reads and uses each manifold pressu= re > as an absolute value, but displays it according to whatever settings you > have put in for it. So, whatever value that corresponds to 90 on the MAP > table is where it stages. It stages smoothly on the ground, but in the ai= r > it starts doing all sorts of backfiring and popping that gets all sorts o= f > unwanted attention from the ground. I can only imagine what observers on = teh > ground are thinking when they hear the plane start backfiring. > > My EC2 is on the left side panel in front of the throttle, which is > mounted on the side of the cockpit. I was wearing flight gloves and had > switched from A to B controller. The switches are so close together that > hitting one will hit the other and you will not feel that through a glove= d > finger or thumb. I already installed a switch guard, and will also have a > rubber band holding it in the off postion. Not elegant, but effective, > cheap, and installation an removal is a snap( Ha! I make funny pun!) > > Brian Trubee > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bill Bradburry > To: Rotary motors in aircraft > Sent: Thu, Nov 11, 2010 4:51 am > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Improved performance of my new (2009) intake > manifold > > That is the second report I have seen of someone hitting the cold start > switch while in flight. The first time there was discussion about switch > guards, etc., which I decided I didn=92t need. My cold start switch is n= ot > located anywhere on the panel where I should have my hands unless I am > changing the mixture. But now with two reports, I am beginning to wonder > what I am missing. > Where are your cold start switches located and what were you doing when y= ou > accidentally hit them? > > I just moved my staging point from 15 inches to 16 inches because 15 was > right on top of 3800 rpm where the EC-2 changes map tables. > > Bill B > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] > *On Behalf Of *bktrub@aol.com > *Sent:* Wednesday, November 10, 2010 9:52 PM > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Improved performance of my new (2009) intake > manifold > > Interesting manifold. Are you still using the VDO fuel pressure sender? = I > had heard that it might not be suitable for use with fuel, I am still usi= ng > mine at present however. > > I went up today for a few laps at 3000 over Paine Field. The engine ran > well below the staging point, but started stumbling when above the stagin= g > point. It ran smoothly through the staging transition on the ground, but > when in the air I could not tell by the mixture monitor if it was lean or > rich. I tried leaning it out and richening it up, but results were > inconclusive so I stayed below the staging point for the remainder of the > flight. Temps were down around 130 degrees at 4800 RPM and 110 mph, MP wa= s > not noted. > > I accidently hit the cold start switch while on downwind with two other > planes ahead of me, the tower told me to go around on final, but the plan= e > ahead turned off onto the taxiway just in time so I told the tower that I > would really like to land, so they cleared me. The engine died as I turne= d > off onto the taxiway and then I noticed the cold start switch. The first > order of business was making and installing a switch guard for the cold > start switch. I'm also going to pre-load the switch with a rubber band so= it > stays in the off position unless I'm pushing it on, and can just pull the > rubber band off of it if I need to shut down a set of injectors and run t= he > remaining injectors on cold start.(limp home mode for failed injector.) > > The fuel self transfering issue was resolved by installing manual valve > on the transfer line between the tanks. > > Brian Trubee > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Dennis Havarlah > To: Rotary motors in aircraft > Sent: Wed, Nov 10, 2010 12:27 pm > Subject: [FlyRotary] Improved performance of my new (2009) intake manifol= d > As some of you know I started flying my RV-7A with a cut - off Renesis > intake manifold. In 2009 I installed an new intake designed to > route pressure waves from the closing of rotor #1's intake into rotor #2 > just before rotor #2's intake closed. After using the new intake for ove= r a > year I am still very happy with it's performance. > > I gained about 15 mph TAS at the same altitude and manifold pressure > My static engine rpm increased 300 to 350 rpm. > My takeoffs are faster and shorter with noticeable increase in > acceleration > My climb rate increased > My oil and water cooling is more critical now because I make more HP. > > But - I must confess I don't believe the manifold can be reproduced > economically. It's just too complicated. > I also believe it should have slightly shorter intake runners to increas= e > the performance at higher RPM. Decreasing the intake runner length proba= bly > would require complete new geometry of the system. > > I have another concept for designing a Renesis intake that using a > reflected wave from Rotor #1 returning to Rotor #1 . > I believe it would be much easier to build and small enough to fit into > the James rotorary cowl but because my intake works well I am not moving > ahead with completing the design and building it. > > Dennis Haverlah > > > > > -- > > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > > Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/Lis= t.html > > > --0015174be444f9577e0494c96125 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Brian,=A0

According to the EC-2 MAP table on pg 29 of th= e EC-2 manual, address 104 corresponds to 30" Hg. =A0Each address chan= ges 1/2" MAP, and you're staging 14 addresses below this, so my gu= ess is that you're staging around 23" Hg MAP. =A0If that is the ca= se, your engine may be going lean as you would be running only on the prima= ries below 23". =A0What size injectors are you running? =A0

Mark S.

On Thu, Nov= 11, 2010 at 9:53 AM, <bktrub@aol.com> wrote:
I'm staging up pretty high- at fuel=A0MAP station 90, I think<= /em> that's around 19 inches of manifold, but I am not absolutely sure = because the manifold sensor channel is not dead on in it's calibration.= That's why I asked about what others are using for a scale factor, low= end offset, etc for their manifold pressure. The EM2 reads and uses =A0eac= h manifold pressure as an absolute value, but displays it according to what= ever settings you have put in for=A0it. So, whatever value that corresponds= to 90 on the MAP table is where it stages. It stages smoothly on the groun= d, but in the air it starts doing all sorts of backfiring and popping that = gets all sorts of unwanted attention from the ground. I can only imagine wh= at observers on teh ground are thinking when they hear the plane start back= firing.
=A0
My EC2 is on the left side =A0panel=A0 in front of the throttle, which= is mounted on the side of the cockpit. I was wearing flight gloves and had= switched from A to B controller. The switches are so close together that h= itting one will hit the other and you will not feel that through a gloved f= inger or thumb. I already installed a switch guard, and will also have a ru= bber band holding it in the off postion. Not elegant, but effective, cheap,= and installation an removal is a snap( Ha! I make funny pun!)
=A0
Brian Trubee


-----= Original Message-----
From: Bill Bradburry <bbradburry@bellsouth.net>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Thu, Nov 11, 2010 4:51 am
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Improved performance of my new (2009) intake manif= old

That is the second= report I have seen of someone hitting the cold start switch while in fligh= t.=A0 The first time there was discussion about switch guards, etc., which = I decided I didn=92t need.=A0 My cold start switch is not located anywhere = on the panel where I should have my hands unless I am changing the mixture.= =A0 But now with two reports, I am beginning to wonder what I am missing.
Where are your col= d start switches located and what were you doing when you accidentally hit = them?
=A0<= /div>
I just moved my st= aging point from 15 inches to 16 inches because 15 was right on top of 3800= rpm where the EC-2 changes map tables.
=A0<= /div>
Bill B
=A0<= /div>
From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of bktrub@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 10= , 2010 9:52 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraf= t
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Imp= roved performance of my new (2009) intake manifold
=A0
Interesting mani= fold. Are you still using the VDO fuel pressure sender? I had heard that it= might not be suitable for use with fuel, I am still using mine at present = however.
=A0
I went up today = for a few laps at 3000 over Paine Field. The engine ran well below the stag= ing point, but started stumbling when above the staging point. It ran smoot= hly through the staging transition on the ground, but when in the air I cou= ld not tell by the mixture monitor if it was lean or rich. I tried leaning = it out and richening it up, but results were inconclusive so I stayed below= the staging point for the remainder of the flight. Temps were down around = 130 degrees at 4800 RPM and 110 mph, MP was not noted.
=A0
I accidently hit= the cold start switch while on downwind with two other planes ahead of me,= the tower told me to go around on final, but the plane ahead turned off on= to the taxiway just in time so I told the tower that I would really like to= land, so they cleared me. The engine died as I turned off onto the taxiway= and then I noticed the cold start switch. The first order of business was = making and installing a switch guard for the cold start switch. I'm als= o going to pre-load the switch with a rubber band so it stays in the off po= sition unless I'm pushing it on, and can just pull the rubber band off = of it if I need to shut down a set of injectors and run the remaining injec= tors on cold start.(limp home mode for failed injector.)
=A0
The fuel self tr= ansfering issue was resolved by installing manual valve on the transfer lin= e between the tanks.
=A0
Brian Trubee
=A0
=A0
-----Original Message-----
From: Dennis Havarlah <clouduster@austin.rr.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Wed, Nov 10, 2010 12:27 pm
Subject: [FlyRotary] Improved performance of my new (2009) intake manifold<= /span>
As some of you k= now I started flying my RV-7A with a cut - off Renesis intake manifold.=A0 = In 2009 I installed an new intake designed to route=A0pressure waves=A0from= the closing of rotor #1's intake=A0into rotor #2 just before rotor #2&= #39;s intake closed.=A0 After using the new intake for over a year I am sti= ll=A0very happy with it's performance.
=A0
I gained about 1= 5 mph TAS at the same altitude and manifold pressure
My static engine= rpm increased 300 to 350 rpm.
My takeoffs are = faster and shorter with noticeable increase in acceleration
My climb rate in= creased
My oil and water= cooling is more critical now because I make more HP.
=A0
But - I must con= fess I don't believe the manifold can be reproduced economically.=A0 It= 's just too complicated.
I also believe i= t should have slightly shorter intake runners to increase the performance a= t higher RPM.=A0 Decreasing the intake runner length probably would require= complete new geometry of the system.
=A0
I have another c= oncept for designing a Renesis=A0intake that using a reflected wave from Ro= tor #1 returning to Rotor #1 .=A0=A0
I believe it wou= ld be much easier to build and small enough to fit into the James rotorary = cowl but because my intake works well I am not moving ahead with completing= the design and building it.
=A0
Dennis Haverlah<= /span>
=A0
=A0
=A0
=A0

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