X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com ([75.180.132.122] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.10) with ESMTP id 4575111 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 11 Nov 2010 10:21:56 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=75.180.132.122; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Return-Path: X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=pepdxKapwHuwCZNFD5uob2wvham6E+RljB0uXw08FdQ= c=1 sm=0 a=n1SFxsxpKasA:10 a=rPkcCx1H5rrOSfN0dPC7kw==:17 a=arxwEM4EAAAA:8 a=r1ClD_H3AAAA:8 a=3oc9M9_CAAAA:8 a=ayC55rCoAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=7g1VtSJxAAAA:8 a=FGEOzlAu6zr0xtpUyPYA:9 a=P9luO_EQNzeJXy2smf0A:7 a=55In64dyocX46TkvVXh81mEyOKMA:4 a=wPNLvfGTeEIA:10 a=Qa1je4BO31QA:10 a=U8Ie8EnqySEA:10 a=EzXvWhQp4_cA:10 a=Gz_k5wR5sPQjfmITyeYA:9 a=segwSlfSAbkqpk5MSqoA:7 a=SkTjjQcI13IPJBqEQ_6HJDlwAGAA:4 a=rPkcCx1H5rrOSfN0dPC7kw==:117 X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 X-Originating-IP: 174.110.167.5 Received: from [174.110.167.5] ([174.110.167.5:49715] helo=EdPC) by cdptpa-oedge03.mail.rr.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.3.46 r()) with ESMTP id C4/93-19545-FE90CDC4; Thu, 11 Nov 2010 15:21:20 +0000 Message-ID: From: "Ed Anderson" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Improved performance of my new (2009) intake manifold Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2010 10:21:18 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0039_01CB818A.2D9DB010" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8117.416 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8117.416 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0039_01CB818A.2D9DB010 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Brian, Yep! any time the drone of the engine changes - it immediately gets your = attention (or should) {:>). I too have turned on the cold start when = meaning to change controllers - but fortunately have always immediately = recognized the problem. There are several possibilities about your staging problem. =20 1. You may not have the cross over adjustment (mode 6) tuned properly = and when it stages its either too rich or too lean when running on all = four. However, adjustment of you manual mixture control should indicate = which direction (lean or rich) helps the situation. 2. Always possible that a secondary injectors is not functioning = properly - you should be able to check this possibility easily (if you = have the injector disable switches that Tracy shows in his = installation). While on the ground - switch off the primary injectors = (you may get a momentary hiccup if you secondaries are not adjusted = properly, but a quick tweak of the mixture control should keep it = running), If it idles/runs fine on the secondaries then they are likely = to be OK. 3. You Fuel Map bin values right after the staging point could have = inappropriate values - Tracy's default is 128 or I guess it shows up as = zero on the EM2 and your adjustments are +- to that zero reference = (128). You mention the results of enrichen/leaning was inconclusive - what = exactly do you mean? Do you mean you could not tell if the engine was = running rich or lean? The Air/fuel Ratio indicator of the EM2 is not = giving you consistent readings? =20 Its pretty important as you know to be able to discern what effect any = adjustments are having and mixture is one of the more important ones. You'll get it sorted out - some installations simply take a bit more = sorting out than others Ed Edward L. Anderson Anderson Electronic Enterprises LLC 305 Reefton Road Weddington, NC 28104 http://www.andersonee.com http://www.eicommander.com From: bktrub@aol.com=20 Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2010 9:51 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Improved performance of my new (2009) intake = manifold Interesting manifold. Are you still using the VDO fuel pressure sender? = I had heard that it might not be suitable for use with fuel, I am still = using mine at present however.=20 I went up today for a few laps at 3000 over Paine Field. The engine ran = well below the staging point, but started stumbling when above the = staging point. It ran smoothly through the staging transition on the = ground, but when in the air I could not tell by the mixture monitor if = it was lean or rich. I tried leaning it out and richening it up, but = results were inconclusive so I stayed below the staging point for the = remainder of the flight. Temps were down around 130 degrees at 4800 RPM = and 110 mph, MP was not noted.=20 I accidently hit the cold start switch while on downwind with two other = planes ahead of me, the tower told me to go around on final, but the = plane ahead turned off onto the taxiway just in time so I told the tower = that I would really like to land, so they cleared me. The engine died as = I turned off onto the taxiway and then I noticed the cold start switch. = The first order of business was making and installing a switch guard for = the cold start switch. I'm also going to pre-load the switch with a = rubber band so it stays in the off position unless I'm pushing it on, = and can just pull the rubber band off of it if I need to shut down a set = of injectors and run the remaining injectors on cold start.(limp home = mode for failed injector.) The fuel self transfering issue was resolved by installing manual valve = on the transfer line between the tanks.=20 Brian Trubee -----Original Message----- From: Dennis Havarlah To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Wed, Nov 10, 2010 12:27 pm Subject: [FlyRotary] Improved performance of my new (2009) intake = manifold As some of you know I started flying my RV-7A with a cut - off Renesis = intake manifold. In 2009 I installed an new intake designed to route = pressure waves from the closing of rotor #1's intake into rotor #2 just = before rotor #2's intake closed. After using the new intake for over a = year I am still very happy with it's performance. I gained about 15 mph TAS at the same altitude and manifold pressure My static engine rpm increased 300 to 350 rpm. My takeoffs are faster and shorter with noticeable increase in = acceleration My climb rate increased My oil and water cooling is more critical now because I make more HP. But - I must confess I don't believe the manifold can be reproduced = economically. It's just too complicated. I also believe it should have slightly shorter intake runners to = increase the performance at higher RPM. Decreasing the intake runner = length probably would require complete new geometry of the system. I have another concept for designing a Renesis intake that using a = reflected wave from Rotor #1 returning to Rotor #1 . =20 I believe it would be much easier to build and small enough to fit into = the James rotorary cowl but because my intake works well I am not moving = ahead with completing the design and building it. Dennis Haverlah -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html ------=_NextPart_000_0039_01CB818A.2D9DB010 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Brian,
 
 
Yep! any time the drone of the engine changes - = it=20 immediately gets your attention (or should) {:>).  I too have = turned on=20 the cold start when meaning to change controllers - but = fortunately=20 have always immediately recognized the problem.
 
There are several possibilities about your = staging=20 problem. 
 
1.  You may not have the cross over = adjustment=20 (mode 6) tuned properly and when it stages its either too rich or too = lean when=20 running on all four.  However, adjustment of you manual mixture = control=20 should indicate which direction (lean or rich) helps the = situation.
 
2.  Always possible that a secondary = injectors is not=20 functioning properly - you should be able to check this possibility = easily (if=20 you have the injector disable switches that Tracy shows in his=20 installation).  While on the ground - switch off the primary = injectors=20 (you may get a momentary hiccup if you secondaries are not adjusted = properly,=20 but a quick tweak of the mixture control should keep it running), If it=20 idles/runs fine on the secondaries then they are likely to be = OK.
 
3.  You Fuel Map bin values right after the = staging=20 point could have inappropriate values - Tracy's default is 128 or I = guess=20 it shows up as zero on the EM2 and your adjustments are +- to that zero=20 reference (128).
 
 
You mention the results of enrichen/leaning was=20 inconclusive - what exactly do you mean?  Do you mean you could not = tell if=20 the engine was running rich or lean?  The Air/fuel Ratio = indicator of=20 the EM2 is not giving you consistent readings?  
 
 Its pretty important as you know to be = able to=20 discern what effect any adjustments are having and mixture is one of the = more=20 important ones.
 
You'll get it sorted out - some installations = simply take=20 a bit more sorting out than others
 
Ed
 
Edward L. Anderson
Anderson Electronic = Enterprises=20 LLC
305 Reefton Road
Weddington, NC 28104
http://www.andersonee.com
http://www.eicommander.com
 

From: bktrub@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2010 9:51 PM
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Improved performance of my new = (2009)=20 intake manifold

Interesting manifold. = Are you=20 still using the VDO fuel pressure sender? I had heard that it might not = be=20 suitable for use with fuel, I am still using mine at present however.=20
 
I went up today for a few laps at 3000 over Paine Field. The engine = ran=20 well below the staging point, but started stumbling when above the = staging=20 point. It ran smoothly through the staging transition on the ground, but = when in=20 the air I could not tell by the mixture monitor if it was lean or rich. = I tried=20 leaning it out and richening it up, but results were inconclusive so I = stayed=20 below the staging point for the remainder of the flight. Temps were down = around=20 130 degrees at 4800 RPM and 110 mph, MP was not noted.
 
I accidently hit the cold start switch while on downwind with two = other=20 planes ahead of me, the tower told me to go around on final, but the = plane ahead=20 turned off onto the taxiway just in time so I told the tower that I = would really=20 like to land, so they cleared me. The engine died as I turned off onto = the=20 taxiway and then I noticed the cold start switch. The first order of = business=20 was making and installing a switch guard for the cold start switch. I'm = also=20 going to pre-load the switch with a rubber band so it stays in the off = position=20 unless I'm pushing it on, and can just pull the rubber band off of it if = I need=20 to shut down a set of injectors and run the remaining injectors on cold=20 start.(limp home mode for failed injector.)
 
The fuel self transfering issue was resolved by installing manual = valve on=20 the transfer line between the tanks.
 
Brian Trubee




-----Original=20 Message-----
From: Dennis Havarlah = <clouduster@austin.rr.com>
To:=20 Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: = Wed, Nov=20 10, 2010 12:27 pm
Subject: [FlyRotary] Improved performance of my new = (2009)=20 intake manifold

As some of you know I started flying my = RV-7A with=20 a cut - off Renesis intake manifold.  In 2009 I installed an new = intake=20 designed to route pressure waves from the closing of rotor = #1's=20 intake into rotor #2 just before rotor #2's intake closed.  = After=20 using the new intake for over a year I am still very happy with = it's=20 performance.
 
I gained about 15 mph TAS at the same = altitude and=20 manifold pressure
My static engine rpm increased 300 to = 350=20 rpm.
My takeoffs are faster and shorter with = noticeable=20 increase in acceleration
My climb rate increased
My oil and water cooling is more = critical now=20 because I make more HP.
 
But - I must confess I don't believe = the manifold=20 can be reproduced economically.  It's just too = complicated.
I also believe it should have slightly = shorter=20 intake runners to increase the performance at higher RPM.  = Decreasing the=20 intake runner length probably would require complete new geometry of the = system.
 
I have another concept for designing a=20 Renesis intake that using a reflected wave from Rotor #1 returning = to Rotor=20 #1 .  
I believe it would be much easier to = build and=20 small enough to fit into the James rotorary cowl but because my intake = works=20 well I am not moving ahead with completing the design and building=20 it.
 
Dennis Haverlah
 
 
 
--
Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub:   http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.htm=
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