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References: <list-4431448@logan.com>
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 07:09:36 -0700 (PDT)
From: Kelly Troyer <keltro@att.net>
Subject: Re: Turbo Questions
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
In-Reply-To: <list-4431448@logan.com>
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Good to hear you guys giving the group the benefit of your experience and "=
Real =0AWorld"=0Ainfo and the "Pros' and=A0"Cons" for those of us still "Gr=
oud Bound"=A0 trying to =0Adecide if we=0Awant to venture from NA to Turbo.=
.........For those of the group (even Lurkers) =0Aout there=0Ain etherland =
listening now is a good time to pick the brain of these Rotary =0A"Pioneers=
" who=0Ahave risked both hardware and rears proving what works and what doe=
s not =0Awork..........=0A=0AKeep the thread going !!................FWIW=
=0AKelly Troyer=0A"Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine=0A"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2=0A"Mi=
stral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A______________________________=
__=0AFrom: John Slade <jslade@canardaviation.com>=0ATo: Rotary motors in ai=
rcraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>=0ASent: Sun, August 15, 2010 8:39:59 A=
M=0ASubject: [FlyRotary] Re: Turbo Questions=0A=0AOn 8/15/2010 9:03 AM, Ed =
Anderson wrote:=0A> The engine doesn't know or care how this increase in pr=
essure comes about - =0A>well, actually it does. If you use a turbo or supe=
rcharger you are also heating =0A>the air through their compression process=
 (which is why you need an intercooler =0A>in many cases) thereby moving cl=
oser to detonation. =0A>=0AEd, this sentence summarizes the advice I receiv=
ed from the Aussie rotary =0Aexpert, Leon Promet (anyone know what became o=
f him?) and others. The way he put =0Ait, using the non-turbo (9.7:1) rotor=
s in a turbo installation gets you an extra =0A30 HP "for free" because thi=
s part of the increased pressure doesn't involve =0Aheating the air via the=
 turbo. You still have to deal with the potential =0Adetonation either way =
if mixture and timing are wrong.=0A=0AMy experience with detonation (or pre=
-detonation) was much less severe than =0Ayours. I heard 'popping' at high =
rpm during run-up at around 44MAP. Reduce the =0Athrottle a hair and the po=
pping ceased. This was with a big fixed pitch prop =0Athat I could only tur=
n at around 4900 rpm. I had the feeling that it was rather =0Alike flooring=
 a car in top gear on a hill. (remember in the old days before ECUs =0Aand =
knock sensors when that would get you a popping sound?). I was able to fly =
=0Amy first 40 hours with no issues from detonation by keeping the throttle=
 away =0Afrom the area that caused it during runup. I never experienced (or=
 at least =0Aheard) any popping once airborne, even during a high-speed run=
 at 44 MAP and =0A6300 rpm. I once tried hooking up a knock sensor to the i=
ntercom without =0Asuccess. I never had any damage to the plugs.=0A=0AWhen =
I installed the adjustable IVO prop my static rpm when from 4900 to 5600rpm=
 =0Aand the popping sound disappeared (analogous to changing gear on the hi=
ll?). I =0Ahaven't experienced any popping since. I think Tracy's ECU does =
a good job of =0Aproviding a rich mixture at high rpm to keep you away from=
 detonation.=0A=0ARegards,=0AJohn Slade=0ACozy IV, N96PM=0A=0A--=0AHomepage=
:=A0 http://www.flyrotary.com/=0AArchive and UnSub:=A0 http://mail.lancairo=
nline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html=0A
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<html><head><style type=3D"text/css"><!-- DIV {margin:0px;} --></style></he=
ad><body><div style=3D"font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:1=
2pt"><DIV></DIV>=0A<DIV>Good to hear you guys giving the group the benefit =
of your experience and "Real World"<BR>info and the "Pros' and&nbsp;"Cons" =
for those of us still "Groud Bound"&nbsp; trying to decide if we</DIV>=0A<D=
IV>want to venture from NA to Turbo..........For those of the group (even L=
urkers) out there</DIV>=0A<DIV>in etherland listening now is a good time to=
 pick the brain of these Rotary "Pioneers" who</DIV>=0A<DIV>have risked bot=
h hardware and rears proving what works and what does not work..........</D=
IV>=0A<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV>Keep the thread going !!................FWIW=
</DIV>=0A<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>Kelly Troyer<BR>"Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine<BR=
>"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2<BR>"Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold =0A<DIV><BR></DIV>=
=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt=
"><BR>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif=
; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><FONT size=3D2 face=3DTahoma>=0A<HR SIZE=3D1>=0A<B><SPAN=
 style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> John Slade &lt;jslade@canarda=
viation.com&gt;<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> Rota=
ry motors in aircraft &lt;flyrotary@lancaironline.net&gt;<BR><B><SPAN style=
=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Sun, August 15, 2010 8:39:59 AM<BR>=
<B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> [FlyRotary] Re: Tu=
rbo Questions<BR></FONT><BR>On 8/15/2010 9:03 AM, Ed Anderson wrote:<BR>&gt=
; The engine doesn't know or care how this increase in pressure comes about=
 - well, actually it does. If you use a turbo or supercharger you are also =
heating the air through their compression process (which is why you need an=
 intercooler in many cases) thereby moving closer to detonation. <BR>Ed, th=
is sentence summarizes the advice I received from the Aussie rotary expert,=
 Leon Promet (anyone know what became of him?) and others. The way he put i=
t, using the non-turbo (9.7:1) rotors in a turbo installation gets
 you an extra 30 HP "for free" because this part of the increased pressure =
doesn't involve heating the air via the turbo. You still have to deal with =
the potential detonation either way if mixture and timing are wrong.<BR><BR=
>My experience with detonation (or pre-detonation) was much less severe tha=
n yours. I heard 'popping' at high rpm during run-up at around 44MAP. Reduc=
e the throttle a hair and the popping ceased. This was with a big fixed pit=
ch prop that I could only turn at around 4900 rpm. I had the feeling that i=
t was rather like flooring a car in top gear on a hill. (remember in the ol=
d days before ECUs and knock sensors when that would get you a popping soun=
d?). I was able to fly my first 40 hours with no issues from detonation by =
keeping the throttle away from the area that caused it during runup. I neve=
r experienced (or at least heard) any popping once airborne, even during a =
high-speed run at 44 MAP and 6300 rpm. I once tried hooking up a
 knock sensor to the intercom without success. I never had any damage to th=
e plugs.<BR><BR>When I installed the adjustable IVO prop my static rpm when=
 from 4900 to 5600rpm and the popping sound disappeared (analogous to chang=
ing gear on the hill?). I haven't experienced any popping since. I think Tr=
acy's ECU does a good job of providing a rich mixture at high rpm to keep y=
ou away from detonation.<BR><BR>Regards,<BR>John Slade<BR>Cozy IV, N96PM<BR=
><BR>--<BR>Homepage:&nbsp; http://www.flyrotary.com/<BR>Archive and UnSub:&=
nbsp; http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html<BR></DIV><=
/DIV></div></body></html>
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