X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from poplet2.per.eftel.com ([203.24.100.45] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.8) with ESMTP id 4419207 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 04 Aug 2010 21:24:42 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=203.24.100.45; envelope-from=lendich@aanet.com.au Received: from sv1-1.aanet.com.au (mail.aanet.com.au [203.24.100.34]) by poplet2.per.eftel.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4EFBF173796 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 2010 09:24:05 +0800 (WST) Received: from ownerf1fc517b8 (203.171.92.134.static.rev.aanet.com.au [203.171.92.134]) by sv1-1.aanet.com.au (Postfix) with SMTP id A47B8BEC099 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 2010 09:24:03 +0800 (WST) Message-ID: <84B5BF7B1A1E4091B7B1E276F593063F@ownerf1fc517b8> From: "George Lendich" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Bad rotary week Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 11:24:05 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000E_01CB3490.B6750B50" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5931 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5931 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 100804-1, 08/04/2010), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01CB3490.B6750B50 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thomas and all, I have seen X-treme/ Guru parts before - very nice products, however I = wonder how the aluminium end housings surface stand-up to Aviation use ( = constant high RPM). Only a test of the products would demonstrate that. = Considering Powersport and Mistral tried all surface treatments known to = man and they all failed, mainly because of sub-strate failure, I will = leave the decision on that up to the reader. Personally I can't afford to waste that sort of money on testing. Mind you I'm not running X-treme's products down, their an Aussie = company and I wish them all the best and in their particular market = their doing very well. The products for drag racing and street rod are = all very good/ excellent products. If you read the info on rotoryengine.com and X-treme, you will see that = there are some improvements ( many improvements) which can be had for = the rotary. Certainly any mass produced engine can benefit from such = improvements. However I like the way Bill Jepson is going, he won't jump into any = project that isn't worth it's merit, even if he has to take it slower = and make it all that much better. Getting it right the first time takes = a lot of effort. My opinion for what it's worth. George I think this was for me (Tom). Bruce T. has built a lot of engines for = aircraft which is why I consider his a good source of info here. He = built Tracy's 20B if I remember correctly. The price quoted was $5800.00 CAD. He suggested I keep my current = center iron if it's in good shape otherwise he would buy it from me if I = insisted on an aluminum version. The link to the center housing is here: http://www.rotaryengine.com/services/aluminumhouse.htm I believe the other side housings and rotor housings originate from = Xtreme Rotaries out of Australia. http://xtremerotaries.com/index.php I saw a 13B assembled keg that weighed in at 109 lbs on the Mazda Trix = site (http://www.mazdatrix.com/ENGPARTRACE.HTM)=20 I don't know what the total weight savings worked out to but that is = fairly impressive. I would not consider aluminum to be a good choice for a turbo = application. In my case I'm going N/A anyway. -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- From: wrjjrs@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 7:20 PM To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Bad rotary week Bruce, If you can find the aluminum 20B intermediate housing anywhere please = let me know who is making it. The price for the STOCK cast iron 20B = intermediate housing has gone to about $5000.00 on the retail market. I = know, Steve and I have been trying to buy one! The stock 20 B = intermediate housing weighs 49 pounds! The side housings George was = mentioning were custom lightweight housings made in steel that weigh = about 1 pound more than the all aluminum housings IE. in a 2 rotor they = would be about 3 pounds over the all aluminum parts. The advantage is = that you can gas nitride them just like the stock parts. None of the = available aluminum housings has ever been run in a long term high-output = engine. The Factory Mazda 26B 4 rotor Le Mans engine used aluminum = sideplates with an exotic detonation gun applied ceramic coating. No one = has reproduced those housings for sale. To my knowledge none of our = flying rotaries has used the Racing Beat housings, which are available = only for the 13B and are VERY pricey. They also have been notorious for = extending delivery times on those housings.=20 Bill Jepson =20 -----Original Message----- From: Thomas Mann To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Tue, Aug 3, 2010 3:02 pm Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Bad rotary week The Aluminum rotor housings will save you 15 lbs each. I'm not sure how much (in weight) the Aluminum side housings will save = you but they are available as well. The 20B Center Housing can be had (in aluminum) as well but it is a = bit pricey at $5K +. All available through www.rotaryengine.com Bruce T. put me on to them. -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- From: wrjjrs@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 4:36 PM To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Bad rotary week Thomas George was speaking of the side plates/intermed housings. Bill Jepson -----Original Message----- From: Thomas Mann To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Tue, Aug 3, 2010 1:33 pm Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Bad rotary week ..... or go with the aluminum housings already P-Ported. It saves 15 = lbs per rotor. -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- From: Dwayne Parkinson Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 3:20 PM To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Bad rotary week Lightweight carbon steel housings? Where exactly do I find those? =20 ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01CB3490.B6750B50 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 Thomas and all,
I have seen X-treme/ Guru parts = before - very=20 nice products, however I wonder how the aluminium end housings surface = stand-up=20 to Aviation use ( constant high RPM). Only a test of the products would=20 demonstrate that. Considering Powersport and Mistral tried all surface=20 treatments known to man and they all failed, mainly because of = sub-strate=20 failure, I will leave the decision on that up to the = reader.
 
Personally I can't afford to waste that = sort of=20 money on testing.
 
Mind you I'm not running X-treme's = products down,=20 their an Aussie company and I wish them all the best and in their = particular=20 market their doing very well. The products for drag racing and street = rod are=20 all very good/ excellent products.
 
If you read the info on = rotoryengine.com and=20 X-treme, you will see that there are some improvements ( many = improvements)=20 which can be had for the rotary. Certainly any mass produced engine can = benefit=20 from such improvements.
 
However I like the way Bill Jepson is = going, he=20 won't jump into any project that isn't worth it's merit, even if he has = to take=20 it slower and make it all that much better. Getting it right the = first time=20 takes a lot of effort.
My opinion for what it's = worth.
George
I=20 think this was for me (Tom). Bruce T. has built a lot of engines for = aircraft=20 which is why I consider his a good source of info here. He built = Tracy's 20B=20 if I remember correctly.

The price quoted was $5800.00 CAD. He=20 suggested I keep my current center iron if it's in good shape = otherwise he=20 would buy it from me if I insisted on an aluminum version.
The link = to the=20 center housing is here:
http://ww= w.rotaryengine.com/services/aluminumhouse.htm

I=20 believe the other side housings and rotor housings originate from = Xtreme=20 Rotaries out of Australia.
http://xtremerotaries.com/in= dex.php

I=20 saw a 13B assembled keg that weighed in at 109 lbs on the Mazda Trix=20 site (http://www.mazdatrix.co= m/ENGPARTRACE.HTM)=20
I don't know what the total weight savings worked out to but that = is=20 fairly impressive.

I would not consider aluminum to be a good = choice=20 for a turbo application. In my case I'm going N/A anyway.

From: wrjjrs@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 = 7:20=20 PM
To: "Rotary motors in aircraft"=20 <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Bad=20 rotary week

Bruce,
If you can find the aluminum 20B intermediate housing anywhere = please let=20 me know who is making it. The price for the STOCK cast iron 20B = intermediate=20 housing has gone to about $5000.00 on the retail market. I know, Steve = and I=20 have been trying to buy one! The stock 20 B intermediate housing = weighs 49=20 pounds! The side housings George was mentioning were custom = lightweight=20 housings made in steel that weigh about 1 pound more than the all = aluminum=20 housings IE. in a 2 rotor they would be about 3 pounds over the all = aluminum=20 parts. The advantage is that you can gas nitride them just like = the stock=20 parts. None of the available aluminum housings has ever been run in a = long=20 term high-output engine. The Factory Mazda 26B 4 rotor Le Mans = engine=20 used aluminum sideplates with an exotic detonation gun applied=20 ceramic coating. No one has reproduced those housings for sale. = To my=20 knowledge none of our flying rotaries has used the Racing Beat = housings, which=20 are available only for the 13B and are VERY pricey. They also have = been=20 notorious for extending delivery times on those housings.
Bill Jepson  



-----Original=20 Message-----
From: Thomas Mann <tmann@n200lz.com>
To: = Rotary=20 motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Tue, = Aug 3,=20 2010 3:02 pm
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Bad rotary week

The = Aluminum rotor=20 housings will save you 15 lbs each.
I'm not sure how much (in = weight) the=20 Aluminum side housings will save you but they are available as=20 well.

The 20B Center Housing can be had (in aluminum) as well = but it is=20 a bit pricey at $5K +.

All available through www.rotaryengine.com

Bruce T. put me on to=20 them.

From: wrjjrs@aol.com
Sent: = Tuesday,=20 August 03, 2010 4:36 PM
To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" = <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Subject:=20 [FlyRotary] Re: Bad rotary week

Thomas George was speaking of the side plates/intermed = housings.
Bill Jepson



-----Original=20 Message-----
From: Thomas Mann <tmann@n200lz.com>
To: = Rotary motors=20 in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent:=20 Tue, Aug 3, 2010 1:33 pm
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Bad rotary = week

 ..... or go = with the aluminum housings already P-Ported. It saves 15 lbs per=20 rotor.

From: Dwayne Parkinson <dwayneparkinson@yahoo.com&g= t;
Sent:=20 Tuesday, August 03, 2010 3:20 PM
To: "Rotary motors in = aircraft"=20 <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Subject:=20 [FlyRotary] Re: Bad rotary week

Lightweight carbon steel housings?  Where exactly do I find=20 those?

 


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