X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from [66.219.56.245] (HELO mail.qnsi.net) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.8) with ESMTP id 4418275 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 04 Aug 2010 08:18:13 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=66.219.56.245; envelope-from=bhughes@qnsi.net X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Return-Receipt-To: "Bobby J. Hughes" Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: Good rotary week MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CB33D7.B7831F00" Disposition-Notification-To: "Bobby J. Hughes" Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2010 07:19:50 -0600 Message-ID: <74120FDE88CAFE4DBDA8814BCE20A3F3208AEF@qnsi-mail.qnsi.net> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [FlyRotary] Re: Good rotary week thread-index: Acszpmc/mC3nM6c4TzOubdP62DSvYgAJ+qng References: From: "Bobby J. Hughes" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01CB33D7.B7831F00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bill, =20 I'm in total agreement. Just pointing it out for discussion. What I found interesting was the weight. It's only a couple of pounds lighter than stock.=20 =20 Bobby ________________________________ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of WRJJRS@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2010 1:24 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Good rotary week=20 Bobby, There are many parts available to the drag racing crowd that are intended for short time use. One guy even built nearly solid aluminum rotors. These parts are like the Top Fueler engine blocks that don't even have water jackets built into them. When you are only running the engine for less than a minute you can get away with a lot of things. When Steve Beckham and Everett Hatch were doing their initial experiments for their superlite engine they tried all types of available aluminum side housings and coatings. None of them held up long term. They tried plating, plasma spray, high alusil aluminum (Vega block material), ceramic coatings, and several others before staying with iron housings on the engine they intended for production. The last thing was a built up steel housing considerably lightened from the iron versions. This was working but the company was sold after Everett's death and wasn't developed further. Their engines were also all p-port so they didn't bother to build in any side ports. There used to be a bunch of people that would say that car engines weren't up to producing 60-100% power like and aircraft engine must. That was shown to be untrue with the rotary as it will run high Rpm's forever IF it has good cooling and oil supply. These things are critical however, and don't take care of themselves. Careful radiator duct design and oil cooler duct design just must be done. The thing to remember here is that is isn't simply making enough horsepower, that isn't too tough. The thing to remember is that you are preparing an engine that might be running on a 500 mile long straight-away! A great many of the car tuners realize that their engines will rarely see operation above 20% and then only see WOT for less than a minute. I'm an ex racer myself and can't think of one track other than Le Mans where the car would be flat out for more than 20-30 seconds. Many aircraft operating above 8,000 feet run WOT ALL THE TIME and just vary prop and mixture to control power. The engine MUST have good water cooling. The engine MUST have good oil cooling, if it is going to survive. I don't see how you are going to achieve that with a hunk of aluminum billet and a plating job. I would love to be proven wrong, but I won't hold my breath. Bill Jepson =20 In a message dated 8/3/2010 6:03:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time, bhughes@qnsi.net writes: =09 Bill, =20 Here's another billet center housing. Very little info provided.=20 =20 =09 http://www.hspnnews.com/index.php/article/new_turbosmart_20b_billet_cent er_plate/ =20 http://www.turbosmartonline.com/index.php?id=3D283 =20 Bobby ________________________________ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of wrjjrs@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 7:30 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Bad rotary week =09 =09 =09 Sorry to double up here but while the site indicates that they have an all aluminum housing, have they got any run time on it? I hate to be skeptical, but even the RB housings, which certainly exist, have been holy grail level of scarcity. We need to see some hour long 70% dyno runs on these things before we even consider using them in an airplane. Bill =09 =20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01CB33D7.B7831F00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Bill,
 
I'm in = total agreement.=20 Just pointing it out for discussion. What I found interesting was the = weight.=20 It's only a couple of pounds lighter than stock.
 
Bobby

From: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of=20 WRJJRS@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2010 1:24=20 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: = [FlyRotary] Re:=20 Good rotary week

Bobby,
There are many parts available to the drag racing crowd that are = intended=20 for short time use. One guy even built nearly solid aluminum rotors. = These parts=20 are like the Top Fueler engine blocks that don't even have water jackets = built=20 into them. When you are only running the engine for less than a minute = you can=20 get away with a lot of things. When Steve Beckham and Everett Hatch were = doing=20 their initial experiments for their superlite engine they tried all = types of=20 available aluminum side housings and coatings. None of them held up long = term.=20 They tried plating, plasma spray, high alusil aluminum (Vega block = material),=20 ceramic coatings, and several others before staying with iron housings = on the=20 engine they intended for production. The last thing was a built up steel = housing=20 considerably lightened from the iron versions. This was working but the = company=20 was sold after Everett's death and wasn't developed further. Their = engines were=20 also all p-port so they didn't bother to build in any side ports. There = used to=20 be a bunch of people that would say that car engines weren't up to = producing=20 60-100% power like and aircraft engine must. That was shown to be untrue = with=20 the rotary as it will run high Rpm's forever IF it has good cooling and = oil=20 supply. These things are critical however, and don't take care of = themselves.=20 Careful radiator duct design and oil cooler duct design just must be = done. The=20 thing to remember here is that is isn't simply making enough horsepower, = that=20 isn't too tough. The thing to remember is that you are preparing an = engine that=20 might be running on a 500 mile long straight-away! A great many of the = car=20 tuners realize that their engines will rarely see operation above 20% = and then=20 only see WOT for less than a minute. I'm an ex racer myself and can't = think of=20 one track other than Le Mans where the car would be flat out for more = than 20-30=20 seconds. Many aircraft operating above 8,000 feet run WOT ALL THE=20 TIME and just vary prop and mixture to control power. The engine = MUST have=20 good water cooling. The engine MUST have good oil cooling, if it is = going to=20 survive. I don't see how you are going to achieve that with a hunk = of=20 aluminum billet and a plating job. I would love to be proven wrong, but = I won't=20 hold my breath.
Bill Jepson
 
In a message dated 8/3/2010 6:03:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time,=20 bhughes@qnsi.net writes:
Bill,
 
Here's another billet center housing.  = Very=20 little info provided.
 
http://www.hspnnews.com/index.php/article/new_turbosmar= t_20b_billet_center_plate/
 
http://www.tu= rbosmartonline.com/index.php?id=3D283
 
Bobby

From: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of=20 wrjjrs@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 7:30=20 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: = [FlyRotary] Re:=20 Bad rotary week

Sorry to double up = here but=20 while the site indicates that they have an all aluminum housing, have = they got=20 any run time on it? I hate to be skeptical, but even the RB housings, = which=20 certainly exist, have been holy grail level of scarcity. We need to = see some=20 hour long 70% dyno runs on these things before we even consider using = them in=20 an airplane.
Bill
 
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