X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from imr-mb01.mx.aol.com ([64.12.207.164] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.8) with ESMTP id 4418045 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 04 Aug 2010 02:24:31 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.12.207.164; envelope-from=WRJJRS@aol.com Received: from imo-da01.mx.aol.com (imo-da01.mx.aol.com [205.188.169.199]) by imr-mb01.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id o746NopJ015221 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 2010 02:23:50 -0400 Received: from WRJJRS@aol.com by imo-da01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.9.) id q.e7e.6f0321f (44631) for ; Wed, 4 Aug 2010 02:23:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from magic-m26.mail.aol.com (magic-m26.mail.aol.com [172.20.22.199]) by cia-mc01.mx.aol.com (v129.4) with ESMTP id MAILCIAMC014-ae574c5907731ac; Wed, 04 Aug 2010 02:23:47 -0400 From: WRJJRS@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2010 02:23:47 EDT Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Good rotary week To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_ca5b1.701a3191.398a6173_boundary" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5046 X-AOL-ORIG-IP: 75.208.243.251 X-AOL-IP: 172.20.22.199 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-SENDER: WRJJRS@aol.com --part1_ca5b1.701a3191.398a6173_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bobby, There are many parts available to the drag racing crowd that are intended for short time use. One guy even built nearly solid aluminum rotors. These parts are like the Top Fueler engine blocks that don't even have water jackets built into them. When you are only running the engine for less than a minute you can get away with a lot of things. When Steve Beckham and Everett Hatch were doing their initial experiments for their superlite engine they tried all types of available aluminum side housings and coatings. None of them held up long term. They tried plating, plasma spray, high alusil aluminum (Vega block material), ceramic coatings, and several others before staying with iron housings on the engine they intended for production. The last thing was a built up steel housing considerably lightened from the iron versions. This was working but the company was sold after Everett's death and wasn't developed further. Their engines were also all p-port so they didn't bother to build in any side ports. There used to be a bunch of people that would say that car engines weren't up to producing 60-100% power like and aircraft engine must. That was shown to be untrue with the rotary as it will run high Rpm's forever IF it has good cooling and oil supply. These things are critical however, and don't take care of themselves. Careful radiator duct design and oil cooler duct design just must be done. The thing to remember here is that is isn't simply making enough horsepower, that isn't too tough. The thing to remember is that you are preparing an engine that might be running on a 500 mile long straight-away! A great many of the car tuners realize that their engines will rarely see operation above 20% and then only see WOT for less than a minute. I'm an ex racer myself and can't think of one track other than Le Mans where the car would be flat out for more than 20-30 seconds. Many aircraft operating above 8,000 feet run WOT ALL THE TIME and just vary prop and mixture to control power. The engine MUST have good water cooling. The engine MUST have good oil cooling, if it is going to survive. I don't see how you are going to achieve that with a hunk of aluminum billet and a plating job. I would love to be proven wrong, but I won't hold my breath. Bill Jepson In a message dated 8/3/2010 6:03:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time, bhughes@qnsi.net writes: Bill, Here's another billet center housing. Very little info provided. _http://www.hspnnews.com/index.php/article/new_turbosmart_20b_billet_center_ plate/_ (http://www.hspnnews.com/index.php/article/new_turbosmart_20b_billet_center_plate/) _http://www.turbosmartonline.com/index.php?id=283_ (http://www.turbosmartonline.com/index.php?id=283) Bobby ____________________________________ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of wrjjrs@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 7:30 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Bad rotary week Sorry to double up here but while the site indicates that they have an all aluminum housing, have they got any run time on it? I hate to be skeptical, but even the RB housings, which certainly exist, have been holy grail level of scarcity. We need to see some hour long 70% dyno runs on these things before we even consider using them in an airplane. Bill --part1_ca5b1.701a3191.398a6173_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Bobby,
There are many parts available to the drag racing crowd that are inte= nded=20 for short time use. One guy even built nearly solid aluminum rotors. These= parts=20 are like the Top Fueler engine blocks that don't even have water jackets= built=20 into them. When you are only running the engine for less than a minute you= can=20 get away with a lot of things. When Steve Beckham and Everett Hatch were= doing=20 their initial experiments for their superlite engine they tried all types= of=20 available aluminum side housings and coatings. None of them held up long= term.=20 They tried plating, plasma spray, high alusil aluminum (Vega block materia= l),=20 ceramic coatings, and several others before staying with iron housings on= the=20 engine they intended for production. The last thing was a built up steel= housing=20 considerably lightened from the iron versions. This was working but the co= mpany=20 was sold after Everett's death and wasn't developed further. Their engines= were=20 also all p-port so they didn't bother to build in any side ports. There us= ed to=20 be a bunch of people that would say that car engines weren't up to produci= ng=20 60-100% power like and aircraft engine must. That was shown to be untrue= with=20 the rotary as it will run high Rpm's forever IF it has good cooling and oi= l=20 supply. These things are critical however, and don't take care of themselv= es.=20 Careful radiator duct design and oil cooler duct design just must be done.= The=20 thing to remember here is that is isn't simply making enough horsepower,= that=20 isn't too tough. The thing to remember is that you are preparing an engine= that=20 might be running on a 500 mile long straight-away! A great many of the car= =20 tuners realize that their engines will rarely see operation above 20% and= then=20 only see WOT for less than a minute. I'm an ex racer myself and can't thin= k of=20 one track other than Le Mans where the car would be flat out for more than= 20-30=20 seconds. Many aircraft operating above 8,000 feet run WOT ALL THE=20 TIME and just vary prop and mixture to control power. The engine MUST= have=20 good water cooling. The engine MUST have good oil cooling, if it is going= to=20 survive. I don't see how you are going to achieve that with a hunk of= =20 aluminum billet and a plating job. I would love to be proven wrong, but I= won't=20 hold my breath.
Bill Jepson
 
In a message dated 8/3/2010 6:03:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time,=20 bhughes@qnsi.net writes:
= Bill,
=  
= Here's another billet center housing.&= nbsp; Very=20 little info provided.
=  
=  
 
Bobby

From: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of=20 wrjjrs@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 7:30=20 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary= ] Re:=20 Bad rotary week

Sorry to double up here= but=20 while the site indicates that they have an all aluminum housing, have th= ey got=20 any run time on it? I hate to be skeptical, but even the RB housings, wh= ich=20 certainly exist, have been holy grail level of scarcity. We need to see= some=20 hour long 70% dyno runs on these things before we even consider using th= em in=20 an airplane.
Bill
 
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