X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from smtp102.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([68.142.198.201] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.8) with SMTP id 4417784 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 03 Aug 2010 21:16:00 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=68.142.198.201; envelope-from=downing.j@sbcglobal.net Received: (qmail 4524 invoked from network); 4 Aug 2010 01:15:24 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=sbcglobal.net; h=DKIM-Signature:Received:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:Message-ID:From:To:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE; b=mCNjIyRiQ50/Lw5E5/UuzczHWDjvJL41OObyXORa/FCvklv6x/zyHXwrEwnZmGFeqUs+of0sFKn46zULfyjnFnGMkp4acIiY68xrcCWEvBEfJByUnZyM5eW4DyEHwdlVXWn2It+CNEAjIptQtfNno82n6S1ndyk2r4PzLgkrDo0= ; DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=sbcglobal.net; s=s1024; t=1280884524; bh=Nf4roeDRDcp57cL+ChkT/sWi0jv23QeoB4heieYOO1M=; h=Received:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:Message-ID:From:To:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE; b=fsrFm/W9vYMH5cTp5PzHjcTnRpx0B71rM0RgUCtCG7gjVzEEcUkoJuJj1D4bqmeww+qQS3umEvickZeHLK76zgtI6fi8hqEHZMXZJncAfF4uuXzx9pS/lf3amcIQq+G5463hfNH7dzKij3ep50WWl6dHTctCms5o6FBmmSHSymE= Received: from JohnPC (downing.j@69.209.126.172 with login) by smtp102.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com with SMTP; 03 Aug 2010 18:15:23 -0700 PDT X-Yahoo-SMTP: 4Ss7WYSswBAR3ULsDHPw5yIFKkoakpn6PCJcwuPp3izwMVSl X-YMail-OSG: WHFQuw0VM1nu_xv4bh40ZV2tomSkreLmcFXsZYFaAZY.1x6 IQNvbyN9acd3U6z9ZeR48JOIqTw1z5oDsc8UmDKgR_iyiFlpBjSXfaZc8nw1 .xfYpkMu88jc4.J6mhRWXFjZ_qeBmMgRh0HxxZrJPoxhJrsE7rqIVtFWaK.G 4zj9y8fhn6s66eYM1IY6PmPi1iUAkssdOQKiyWKoE2zF2dREu4z.gZPW497m bOBFBi_3oQlzfyyA1e3d0wmEydvTpin2SvRTZAgSe3N7OYq_4747DHKZ6pcu 4w75A8pdNhp0t728EHjU3wEySC6C4ma_96oRl5J_YLVgUNJbn5zIe X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: From: "John" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Bad rotary week Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 21:15:23 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0039_01CB3350.FCA05F80" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6002.18197 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6002.18197 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0039_01CB3350.FCA05F80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Just returned from Oshkosh, what does all this have to do with a bad = rotary week. JohnD ----- Original Message -----=20 From: ben haas=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 6:16 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Bad rotary week I agree with Tracy on this. You need to add apples to apples to get = any kind of logical comparison. =20 On my V-8 conversion I often get the " it's too heavy" comment from = the Lyc/Cont crowd. I politely point out the Lyc stated weight, 307 lbs, = is for a bare 0-360. A lot of people assume that's the installed weight. = They are so wrong. =20 =20 Fact...... I personally removed a 0-360 Lycoming with a two blade = constant speed prop right out of a Piper. I simply removed the mount = from the firewall with an engine hoist and a certified scale hooked to = the engine/prop combo, and left EVERY thing it took to fly the plane. = ie, Motor, starter, alt, baffles, exhaust system, fuel system, = brackets, prop, governer, you name it. It was weighed just as it came = off the airframe.......... =20 457 lbs. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! =20 That's a LONG way from 307 lbs. Ben Haas www.haaspowerair.com =20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 11:54:16 -0400 From: tracy@rotaryaviation.com Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Bad rotary week Nope, that's weight of engine and required systems (cooling, redrive, = alternator & starter). . Trying to define it in the same way that Lycoming defines their = engine weight for comparison purposes. eng mount, brackets, ducts, = prop, mounting hardware, exhaust system, etc must be added for FWF = weight. Tracy On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 10:44 AM, Kelly Troyer wrote: Tracy, =20 Is 260 lbs your firewall forward weight ??................... Kelly Troyer "Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 "Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold=20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= --- From: Tracy Crook To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Mon, August 2, 2010 8:29:31 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Bad rotary week Hi Dwayne, I estimate I'm getting about 200 HP at 7200 rpm on the Renesis. = 230 is probably the best you are likely to get when normally aspirated = and then you will need to turn it a bit faster. I went all out for = weight reduction on my RV-4 so the engine & systems came out around 260 = lbs. OTOH, I'm getting about 270 effortless HP from the 20B at 6250 rpm. = Should get 300 if turned to 7000. This install weighs about 90 pounds = more than the Renesis though. Tracy=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0039_01CB3350.FCA05F80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Just returned from Oshkosh, what does all this = have to do=20 with a bad rotary week.  JohnD
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 ben = haas=20
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 = 6:16=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Bad = rotary=20 week

I  agree with Tracy on this. You need to add = apples to=20 apples to get any kind of logical comparison.
 
On my V-8=20 conversion I often get the " it's too heavy" comment from the = Lyc/Cont=20 crowd. I politely point out the Lyc stated weight, = 307 lbs, is for a=20 bare 0-360. A lot of people assume that's the installed weight. They = are so=20 wrong. 
 
Fact...... I personally removed a 0-360 = Lycoming=20 with a two blade constant speed prop right out of a Piper.  I = simply=20 removed the mount from the firewall  with an engine hoist and a = certified=20 scale hooked to the engine/prop combo, and left EVERY thing it took to = fly the=20 plane. ie,  Motor, starter, alt, baffles, exhaust system, fuel = system,=20 brackets, prop, governer, you name it.  It was weighed just = as it=20 came off the airframe..........
 
457 lbs.=20 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
That's a LONG way from 307=20 lbs.

Ben Haas
www.haaspowerair.com



 
To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 11:54:16=20 -0400
From: tracy@rotaryaviation.com
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Bad rotary=20 week

Nope, that's weight of engine and required systems = (cooling,=20 redrive, alternator & starter).

.  Trying to define it = in the=20 same way that Lycoming defines their engine weight for comparison=20 purposes.  eng mount, brackets, ducts, prop, mounting hardware, = exhaust=20 system, etc must be added for FWF weight.

Tracy

On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 10:44 AM, Kelly = Troyer <keltro@att.net>=20 wrote:
Tracy,
   
     Is 260 lbs=20 your firewall forward weight ??...................
 
Kelly Troyer
"Dyke Delta"_13B = ROTARY=20 Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"Mistral"_Backplate/Oil=20 Manifold


From: Tracy Crook = <tracy@rotaryaviation.com>=
To: Rotary motors in aircraft = <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Mon, August 2, 2010 = 8:29:31=20 PM
Subject: = [FlyRotary] Re:=20 Bad rotary week

Hi Dwayne,
   I estimate = I'm=20 getting about 200 HP at 7200 rpm on the Renesis.  230 is = probably the=20 best you are likely to get when normally aspirated and then you will = need to=20 turn it a bit faster.  I went all out for weight reduction on = my RV-4=20 so the engine & systems came out around 260 lbs.

OTOH, = I'm=20 getting about 270 effortless HP from the 20B at 6250 rpm.  = Should get=20 300 if turned to 7000.   This install weighs about 90 pounds = more than=20 the Renesis though.

Tracy=20


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