X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from poplet2.per.eftel.com ([203.24.100.45] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.8) with ESMTP id 4417611 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 03 Aug 2010 17:58:56 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=203.24.100.45; envelope-from=lendich@aanet.com.au Received: from sv1-1.aanet.com.au (mail.aanet.com.au [203.24.100.34]) by poplet2.per.eftel.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E4F7173665 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 2010 05:58:19 +0800 (WST) Received: from ownerf1fc517b8 (203.171.92.134.static.rev.aanet.com.au [203.171.92.134]) by sv1-1.aanet.com.au (Postfix) with SMTP id A192DBEC00E for ; Wed, 4 Aug 2010 05:58:17 +0800 (WST) Message-ID: <4AA1B23B2A104C52A73169A3A4386EBA@ownerf1fc517b8> From: "George Lendich" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Bad rotary week Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2010 07:58:17 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0011_01CB33AA.CC09EAD0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5931 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5931 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 100803-1, 08/03/2010), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01CB33AA.CC09EAD0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dwayne,=20 Ah the penny drops, I was hoping you would consider that. Our own Bill = Jepson (mechanical engineer) has teamed-up with the surviving partner = of the Powersport owners. Powersport didn't invent the process but they = did apply it to Mazda rotary end housings and it was very successful, = with the death of one of the partners the business closed down. They are = in the process of getting things up and running again. For many years there has been attempts to develop aluminium end housings = with varied success. The carbon steel housings are about 1lb heavier but = have none of the disadvantages of the aluminium. They are perfect for = what you need IMHO. Bill I assume will be watching this space. I don't know if there are any 3 rotor cranks made in the States but = there is a company in New Zealand who does. This I think will be your best and cheapest solution for your power = requirements. Will probably get about 360 hp with PP - remember the = light carbon steel housings are made for PP only. I was pleased to see = Tracy getting 270hp at lower RPM, if the power is too much you might = consider a lower 2.17 reduction drive - prop turns anti-clockwise with = the 2.17. George ( down under) Lightweight carbon steel housings? Where exactly do I find those? -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- From: George Lendich To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Mon, August 2, 2010 7:14:41 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Bad rotary week Dwayne, Just some thoughts, please don't consider me an expert. I believe you have a couple of options, a 20B should give you approx = 270hp ( or 90 hp x 3 rotors) in basic configuration, some of the 20B = builders can confirm this or otherwise. Parts should be not that hard to = get once the housings development is complete. You can get the 3 rotor = crank in a number of outlets.=20 You should be able to build a 20B with the light carbon steel housings = replacing the heavy cast steel housings, for about the same weight as a = 13B. That would be nice. The light carbon steel housings are designed for PP, that could give = you as much as 360hp in a 20B, if you design for optimum HP or less = using lower compression rotors. A 2 rotor 13B -PP might get you 250hp then again might not however I = feel it would give you the 230 hp. A 2 rotor PP with NOS would get you = the take-off power required. I believe that currently being done by = someone. Then there's the Turbo, which you know about. Just remember to consider all options. George ( down under) Bobby / Tracy - Do either of you know what HP your Renesis is = generating? I'm very curious about the supercharged Renesis. If you = know the installed weight that would be great info too? =20 George - I'm building a Bearhawk on floats and would like 250+ HP. =20 Anyone who cares - I currently fly a Stinson 108-1 behind a Franklin = 150 so I'm painfully aware of how hard it is to come by parts for unique = engines. That makes the 20B much less appealing as an option for me. = That being said, I watched from the Sea Plane Base at Oshkosh as an = Aeronca Sedan with 145 HP lumbered across Lake Winnebago trying to get = off the water. People actually cheered when he finally broke a float = free. I think he was in Appleton's airspace by the time he got into air = (no, I'm not kidding either). That type of performance just won't cut = it so anything less than 230 HP is not an option for me either. Thanks very much. Dwayne -------------------------------------------------------------------------= --- From: Bobby J. Hughes To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Mon, August 2, 2010 6:33:36 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Bad rotary week Dwayne, My super charged renesis uses 1 oz per gallon of 2 stroke oil. So = it's very likely David is using 1 quart every 5 hours. Question is = 2-stroke or sump? No indication I am using any sump oil. But I only have = about 35 flight hours. I do have a small internal coolant leak and need = to replace an o-ring when my fiberglass work is finished. I would choose = the renesis side port exhaust over a peripheral port exhaust any day for = our application.=20 Bobby Hughes -------------------------------------------------------------------------= --- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] = On Behalf Of Dwayne Parkinson Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 4:43 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Bad rotary week For anyone hoping that a 16X would show up any time soon: not ... = gonna ... happen. No RX7 and the RX8 is still powered by the Renesis = for 2011. http://www.mazdausamedia.com/content/2011-mazda-vehicles-glance As if that's not bad enough, when I was at Oshkosh I took in David = Atkins rotary seminar. I came away pretty depressed thinking that I = probably won't put a rotary engine in my airplane. Is everyone else = really using 1 quart of oil every 5 hours? He also didn't have much = good to say about the Renesis in an aviation application which leads me = to conclude that the 16X will fare even worse in aviation applications = as it is tweaked to meet higher EPA requirements and produce more low = end torque. Is anyone but Tracy using a Renesis? I'd really like to know what = HP you're getting, what the fuel burn is and how it's holding up. Thanks, Dwayne P.S. I couldn't find any rotary planes on the field at Oshkosh. = Perhaps they sank into the mud. ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01CB33AA.CC09EAD0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 Dwayne,
Ah the penny drops, I was hoping you = would consider=20 that. Our own Bill Jepson (mechanical engineer)  has teamed-up with = the surviving partner of the Powersport = owners. Powersport didn't=20 invent the process but they did apply it to Mazda rotary end housings = and it was=20 very successful, with the death of one of the partners the business = closed down.=20 They are in the process of getting things up and running = again.
 
For many years there has been attempts = to develop=20 aluminium end housings with varied success. The carbon steel housings = are about=20 1lb heavier but have none of the disadvantages of the aluminium. They = are=20 perfect for what you need IMHO.
 
Bill I assume will be watching this=20 space.
 
I don't know if there are any 3 rotor = cranks made=20 in the States but there is a company in New Zealand who = does.
 
This I think will be your best and = cheapest=20 solution for your power requirements. Will probably get about 360 hp = with PP -=20 remember the light carbon steel housings are made for PP only. I was = pleased to=20 see Tracy getting 270hp at lower RPM, if the power is too much you might = consider a lower 2.17 reduction drive - prop turns anti-clockwise with = the=20 2.17.
George ( down under)
Lightweight carbon steel housings?  Where exactly do I find=20 those?

From: George Lendich = <lendich@aanet.com.au>
<= SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To: Rotary motors in aircraft = <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Mon, August 2, 2010 = 7:14:41=20 PM
Subject: = [FlyRotary] Re:=20 Bad rotary week

 Dwayne,
Just some thoughts, please don't = consider me an=20 expert.
 
I believe you have a couple of = options, a 20B=20 should give you approx 270hp ( or 90 hp x 3 rotors) in basic = configuration,=20 some of the 20B builders can confirm this or otherwise. Parts should = be not=20 that hard to get once the housings development is complete. You = can get=20 the 3 rotor crank in a number of outlets. 
 
You should be able to build a 20B = with the light=20 carbon steel housings replacing the heavy cast steel housings, for = about the=20 same weight as a 13B. That would be nice.
 
The light carbon steel housings = are designed=20 for PP, that could give you as much as 360hp in a 20B, if you design = for=20 optimum HP or less using lower compression rotors.
 
A 2 rotor 13B -PP might get you 250hp = then again=20 might not however  I feel it would give you the 230 = hp. A 2 rotor PP with NOS would get you the take-off power = required.=20 I believe that currently being done by someone.
 
Then there's the Turbo, which you = know=20 about.
Just remember to consider all=20 options.
George ( down under)
Bobby / Tracy -=20  Do=20 either of you know what HP your Renesis is generating?  I'm = very=20 curious about the supercharged Renesis.  If you know the = installed=20 weight that would be great info too?  

George - I'm=20 building a Bearhawk on floats and would like 250+ HP. =  

Anyone who cares=20 - I currently fly a Stinson 108-1 behind a Franklin 150 so I'm = painfully=20 aware of how hard it is to come by parts for unique engines. =  That=20 makes the 20B much less appealing as an option for me.  That = being=20 said, I watched from the Sea Plane Base at Oshkosh as an Aeronca = Sedan with=20 145 HP lumbered across Lake Winnebago trying to get off the water.=20  People actually cheered when he finally broke a float free. =  I=20 think he was in Appleton's airspace by the time he got into air (no, = I'm not=20 kidding either).  That type of performance just won't cut it so = anything less than 230 HP is not an option for me = either.

Thanks very=20 much.

Dwayne



From: Bobby J. = Hughes=20 <bhughes@qnsi.net>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft = <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Mon, August 2, 2010 = 6:33:36=20 PM
Subject: = [FlyRotary] Re:=20 Bad rotary week

Dwayne,
 
My super charged renesis uses 1 oz per = gallon of 2=20 stroke oil. So it's very likely David is using 1 quart every 5 = hours.=20 Question is 2-stroke or sump? No indication I am using any sump oil. = But I=20 only have about 35 flight hours. I do have a small internal coolant = leak=20 and need to replace an o-ring when my fiberglass work is = finished. I=20 would choose the renesis side port exhaust over a peripheral port = exhaust=20 any day for our application.
 
Bobby Hughes

From: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Dwayne=20 Parkinson
Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 4:43 = PM
To:=20 Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Bad rotary=20 week

For = anyone=20 hoping that a 16X would show up any time soon:  not ... gonna = ...=20 happen.  No RX7 and the RX8 is still powered by the Renesis for = 2011.

http://www.mazdausamedia.com/content/2011-mazda-vehicles-glance

As = if that's not=20 bad enough, when I was at Oshkosh I took in David Atkins rotary = seminar.=20  I came away pretty depressed thinking that I probably won't = put a=20 rotary engine in my airplane.  Is everyone else really using 1 = quart of=20 oil every 5 hours?  He also didn't have much good to say = about the=20 Renesis in an aviation application which leads me to conclude that = the 16X=20 will fare even worse in aviation applications as it is tweaked to = meet=20 higher EPA requirements and produce more low end = torque.

Is = anyone but=20 Tracy using a Renesis?  I'd really like to know what HP you're = getting,=20 what the fuel burn is and how it's holding up.

Thanks,

Dwayne

P.S. =  I=20 couldn't find any rotary planes on the field at Oshkosh. =  Perhaps they=20 sank into the mud.







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