Mailing List flyrotary@lancaironline.net Message #51427
From: Kelly Troyer <keltro@att.net>
Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: high/low pressure pumps question
Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2010 10:26:23 -0700 (PDT)
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Guys,
  Very enlightening and truly food for thought to those of us still in the construction stage...........I have just
one more question to ask............Previous info seemed to indicate that return fuel should be entering the
fuel tank at the bottom or at least close to the bottom.............In light of Steve's observations would it
seem reasonable that air bubbles in the return fuel would be eliminated to the tank vent faster if the return
line was at the top or close to the top of the tank ??................  
 
Kelly Troyer
"Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold



From: Steven W. Boese <SBoese@uwyo.edu>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Tue, June 8, 2010 11:29:55 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: high/low pressure pumps question

 
In the reference provided by Ed, there is mention of the fuel temperature being monitored to allow compensation for changes in fuel viscosity with changes in temperature.  The ECU might be changing injector pulse width in response to the fuel temperature rather than changing the fuel pressure in an attempt to avoid vapor lock.
 
When I first assembled my fuel system, I put a section of glass tubing in the return line after the pressure regulator.  I did this because I saw bubbles in the fuel being returned to the tank and assumed that there was an air leak somewhere in the system, most likely in the suction section between the tank and the pumps.  I never found an air leak after many hours of searching.  The bubbles I saw were air bubbles that separated from the fuel during the rapid pressure drop through the regulator.  The formation of the air bubbles takes place quickly whereas the dissolution back into the fuel is much slower.  The solubility of air in fuel is much greater than the solubility of air in water, and we all have seen the air bubbles that form on the walls a container of water as it warms up and the solubility decreases.  When returning the fuel to the tank, eventually the air would be purged from the liquid fuel and out the vent.  I observed the elimination of the air bubbles in the return line after about 10 minutes of recurculation when using a vented fuel tank of only a gallon in volume.  I don't know how long this would take in the case of a large wing tank.
 
Returning the fuel from the regulator to the supply line orto a small header tank feeding the fuel pumps seems to me to have the potential for problems in at least three ways: 1)  from increasing fuel vapor pressure as temperature rises,  2)  decreased solubility of air in the fuel as temperature rises,  3)  the accumulation of air as a result of the formation of air bubbles in the pressure regulator which occurs even without an increase in temperature.  All of these things could contribute to vapor lock. 
 
These are just my observations.  There is also the indisputable observation of the success of Ed's system for many years of operation.
 
Steve Boese
RV6A, 1986 13B NA, RD1A, EC2
 

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Al Wick [alwick@juno.com]
Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2010 8:59 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: high/low pressure pumps question

Hi Ed. You often make significant contributions that help improve flight safety. If you share your fuel design, at least do the calculations and let users know how close this is to vapor lock. We're talking about life risk here. You are glossing over my point and changing the topic. Returning fuel to pump inlet is very risky and should not be done unless you desire to operate on the threshold of vapor lock.
 
I agree, there is one exception. That's if you have one of the new fuel pump controllers that measures fuel parameters and alters pump speed. I looked into that one years ago. Talk about added complexity!
 
On with the good stuff!
 
-al wick
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