X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from web83907.mail.sp1.yahoo.com ([69.147.92.109] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.7) with SMTP id 4338136 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 06 Jun 2010 10:04:57 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=69.147.92.109; envelope-from=keltro@att.net Received: (qmail 36221 invoked by uid 60001); 6 Jun 2010 14:04:23 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=att.net; s=s1024; t=1275833063; bh=4O/u6EgOmnAizj8fi/qSL3cmpYS+K9YsaWew2d5XSsA=; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=0or/6tKwR4JvFzIbhnowy7f1OuG7diG8zCw7lyWMRAY1Kx6bROiVAgRnP6GeTltKCzdhxsmS0s80FcARQi0u+tgG5GRi3q2TKMQttnJDZ7/mRYrCSTMmyIgxSU984W88xwbvvni3kuPLrnA1rtru+7vYYi4QRtta8M4g0EEicIQ= DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=att.net; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=UebyFV8etaEI8ZbG5IlJgoWYqV+jVWFaPVufHRuMsMfv7eIhCG0lwJzB4rA64u+M/7pW8GR0VBDiubV1XP0NX2stT+Drp+PRI9w3Q2013N67AU8rmF/rKBHIA1fwqeJSUA2FNTTASRkFfiLOKkbgUiQnYcchXMlVvPtlKCwe18I=; Message-ID: <16035.35836.qm@web83907.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: .LSRkhkVM1kPYsBmmcxN8NZljkvn31F0L.ypuN2UPHZoSOC nCYtiadbEUXCi23FWXyXJ7.4tZVwUA8SSwgGZeSAJzjGYcYMvjwmlBPYVnoC ojCj373yu.jSKxkRtzrxgw_tGdpcY_39n8mCoWXeT15koWS8Yt2n_3GsxoCB BwU_3T12s7eMVvWEBLGw0z_j3wFtdA_3.0ao08bo.xmeU5d0VaIgTp7P_9Fy zCc2mwxQoL76lliYmiHZxBjCHiEBvyt2qC4kF62QuMKpJ9H1YRy2rR_hlGA8 l0fFjGZdjEBmdj7esbvlorcg0zf1FRTY9DzoDqddH1S5WaxERyhVjpx9Ft3O 9m1ZdqRhpNX6r_MbNsR6rENw- Received: from [208.114.33.219] by web83907.mail.sp1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 06 Jun 2010 07:04:22 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/397.8 YahooMailWebService/0.8.103.269680 References: Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2010 07:04:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Kelly Troyer Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: high/low pressure pumps question To: Rotary motors in aircraft In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1731485444-1275833062=:35836" --0-1731485444-1275833062=:35836 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Charlie,=0A=A0=A0=A0 Do you think there is a chance of any air bubbles (Say= from an empty tank) collecting=0Ain the dead ended fuel rail and=A0not cle= aring because the return line is at the regulator ??......=0A=A0Kelly Troye= r=0A"Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine=0A"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2=0A"Mistral"_Backpla= te/Oil Manifold =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Cha= rlie England =0ATo: Rotary motors in aircraft =0ASent: Sun, June 6, 2010 8:47:24 AM=0ASubject: [= FlyRotary] Re: high/low pressure pumps question=0A=0AHope this helps...=0A= =0AOn 6/6/2010 2:21 AM, Todd Bartrim wrote:=0A> =0A> Hi Charlie;=0A> Hmmmnn= , I gotta say a picture (or drawing) is worth a thousand words.=0A> Todd (s= ent on my new-fangled google phone with a really damn small keyboard)=0A> = =0A>> On 2010-06-05 8:46 PM, "Charlie England" > wrote:=0A>> =0A>> Hi Todd,=0A>> =0A>> My tho= ught is to set up the fuel path thus: fuel source through a T into injectio= n pumps, through filters, through combining T, through the regulator(in coc= kpit), through firewall to engine. The regulator's bypass port (in the cock= pit) would be plumbed just like yours, except no heat exchanger since the b= ypass fuel would never see the heat of the engine compartment. The bypass w= ould still T into the supply to the injection pumps, like your system. Obvi= ously, a manifold pressure line would be required through the firewall into= the cockpit to the pressure regulator.=0A>> =0A>> My original plan (differ= ent injection that didn't require a return line) was similar to your select= or setup: main tanks feeding stock van's selector, with the 3rd port on it = being fed by a 2nd vans selector to select either of the 2 aux tanks. No tr= ansfer pump would have been required, & no crossover valve. Failure of the = primary valve could have been a 'show stopper', but the newer valves seem t= o be rock solid reliable. Going to this system using the gear type pumps re= quiring a return line forced re-thinking. Using your idea to return the byp= assed fuel at the pump inlet effectively eliminates the 'return' issue, & t= empts me to return to the original fuel selector layout, with the addition = of a Facet boost pump. The fact that the optical sensors will work looking = into the side of a fuel line (the T), instead of needing them in the tank &= that they still give almost a full minute's warning, is very encouraging. = I'll start looking for a convenient place to mount them.=0A>> =0A>> I hope that Tracy will chime in on how he plumbe= d the regulator on his -8.=0A>> =0A>> Many thanks for the extra details.=0A= >> =0A>> Charlie=0A>> =0A>> =0A>> =0A>> On 6/5/2010 12:32 PM, Todd Bartrim = wrote:=0A>> =0A>>=A0 =A0 >=0A>>=A0 =A0 > Hi Charlie=0A>>=A0 =A0 >=A0 =A0 No= t sure I understand correctly what you mean? Can you=0A>>=A0 =A0 sketch it = out quickly? I'...=0A>> =0A>>=A0 =A0 > *From*: Charlie England >=A0 =A0 =0A>>=A0 =A0 >=A0 =A0 ..=0A>> =0A>>=A0 =A0 > *Subject*: [= FlyRotary] Re: high/low pressure pumps question=0A>>=A0 =A0 > *Date*: Sat, = 05 Jun 2010 08:38:09 -0...=0A>> =0A>> =0A>> =0A>> --=0A>> Homepage: http://= www.flyrotary.com/=0A>> Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81= /lists...=0A>> --0-1731485444-1275833062=:35836 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
=0A
Charlie,
=0A
   = Do you think there is a chance of any air bubbles (Say from an empty tank)= collecting
=0A
in the dead ended fuel rail and not clearing = because the return line is at the regulator ??......
 
Kelly T= royer
"Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"Mistral"_= Backplate/Oil Manifold =0A

=0A

=0A
=0A
=0AFrom: Charlie England <ceengland@bellsouth.net>
<= B>To: Rotary motors in aircraf= t <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Sun, June 6, 2010 8:47:24 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: high/low pressure pumps q= uestion

Hope this helps...

On 6/6/2010 2:21 AM, Todd B= artrim wrote:
>
> Hi Charlie;
> Hmmmnn, I gotta say a pi= cture (or drawing) is worth a thousand words.
> Todd (sent on my new-= fangled google phone with a really damn small keyboard)
>
>>= ; On 2010-06-05 8:46 PM, "Charlie England" <ceengland@bellsou= th.net <mailto:ceengland@bellsouth.net>= > wrote:
>>
>> Hi Todd,
>>
>> My t= hought is to set up the fuel path thus: fuel source through a T into inject= ion pumps, through filters, through combining T, through the regulator(in c= ockpit), through firewall to engine. The regulator's bypass port (in the co= ckpit) would be plumbed just like yours, except no heat exchanger since the= bypass fuel would never see the heat of the engine compartment. The bypass= would still T into the supply to the injection pumps, like your system. Ob= viously, a manifold pressure line would be required through the firewall in= to the cockpit to the pressure regulator.
>>
>> My origi= nal plan (different injection that didn't require a return line) was simila= r to your selector setup: main tanks feeding stock van's selector, with the= 3rd port on it being fed by a 2nd vans selector to select either of the 2 aux tanks. No transfer pump would have been required, & no cross= over valve. Failure of the primary valve could have been a 'show stopper', = but the newer valves seem to be rock solid reliable. Going to this system u= sing the gear type pumps requiring a return line forced re-thinking. Using = your idea to return the bypassed fuel at the pump inlet effectively elimina= tes the 'return' issue, & tempts me to return to the original fuel sele= ctor layout, with the addition of a Facet boost pump. The fact that the opt= ical sensors will work looking into the side of a fuel line (the T), instea= d of needing them in the tank & that they still give almost a full minu= te's warning, is very encouraging. I'll start looking for a convenient plac= e to mount them.
>>
>> I hope that Tracy will chime in o= n how he plumbed the regulator on his -8.
>>
>> Many tha= nks for the extra details.
>>
>> Charlie
>>
>>
>>
>> On 6/5/2010 12:= 32 PM, Todd Bartrim wrote:
>>
>>    >
&g= t;>    > Hi Charlie
>>    >  &nb= sp; Not sure I understand correctly what you mean? Can you
>> = ;   sketch it out quickly? I'...
>>
>>   = > *From*: Charlie England <ceengland@bellsouth.net>>    <mailto:ceengland@bellsouth.net>= ;
>>    <mailto:Charlie%20England%20%3cceengland@bell= sout.
>>    <mailto:Charlie%2520England%2520%253cceen= gland@bellsout.>..
>>
>>    > *Subject*:= [FlyRotary] Re: high/low pressure pumps question
>>    > *Date*: Sat, 05 Jun 2010 08:38:09 -0...
>>
>>
= >>
>> --
>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/>> Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists...
&= gt;>

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