X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from web83907.mail.sp1.yahoo.com ([69.147.92.109] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.7) with SMTP id 4330995 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 30 May 2010 16:51:50 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=69.147.92.109; envelope-from=keltro@att.net Received: (qmail 69160 invoked by uid 60001); 30 May 2010 20:51:15 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=att.net; s=s1024; t=1275252675; bh=vUk3qf6Yc6ZRgCiQaZVxa0/DsQEJjKkizP+NdW+YOwQ=; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=WeV7QhdmPl+uL1pcibsRbeGUvptumwPb0wLZCNbpHJGc9uheDncQhjrVylGLg3+OGZQ2vcIlQXrb4oYe/hilXsU9+xrDoE3LsuJN05v3AnP8fviL6zwPX3iRg9mh+1kTiQmJ4+dcVexcqxJhOAhUprRrLlsXaRWbJPg6E6LHQpQ= DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=att.net; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=1yv3QufhbwewSBNikjKc3HfEQPPqrRABHz4orK8zUhEHsTBXT55J+fJ1pk5MsHgalcVXef/0T3iCcRG4KBg1sQu3dsihPpvR41XpEwruDsjHCfFFj2fWLvES7Y85ZSnSX6MSasNHzBhwayIvrpUMOoVCQ8/CR0ekM/zncCPjGiA=; Message-ID: <329736.68682.qm@web83907.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: ORB8b0EVM1murjU_52BKhIYEpNGENI41nIc5iyiqaLe81EE UQSSeiku4o9I8.jt4eZ9DYisw1FdcRg9uvdWqSMgIdPERzoIUMOJFFGPejxw b0AC48QChv36Fw1wXe53YC_17I3Ooth1pcPD6xdB8IkuIiCi_mqK85loY7._ alYh9dbL7mVY7Y5ielN.LAlK01hsrNT29jJ.cRv6IRH46Kc8b9PmTqAiYfUm 39tSTCzeGU0KwcA3okzSgyUJnWNbDhOdJHNLntmT3wCLQfzoHjxXXbqs9..V vucTfZqs4yWk1Brr.lUR674sBnSDSBbU.XZfmm5nHBIjeAqwsm7F7yvMYmZY PEzn4d6lOfQ-- Received: from [208.114.34.224] by web83907.mail.sp1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 30 May 2010 13:51:15 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/374.4 YahooMailWebService/0.8.103.269680 References: Date: Sun, 30 May 2010 13:51:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Kelly Troyer Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: tehachapi [off subject] To: Rotary motors in aircraft In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-2116995211-1275252675=:68682" --0-2116995211-1275252675=:68682 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Happy Birthday Al !!....................Seems there are several other crazy= s in this group that have jumped from=0Astill functioning aircraft !!......= .......My first jump was taken when=C2=A0I was 45 years old because I wante= d to fly =0Aa homebuilt airplane and I wanted to be less afraid of using a = parachute then staying=C2=A0in a compromised=0Aaircraft (Spell that "Unsurv= ivable Situation")................Of course that led to another expensive h= obby...........=0A=C2=A0=C2=A0Kelly Troyer=0A"Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine= =0A"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2=0A"Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A___= _____________________________=0AFrom: Al Gietzen =0ATo:= Rotary motors in aircraft =0ASent: Sun, May 3= 0, 2010 2:14:52 PM=0ASubject: [FlyRotary] Re: tehachapi [off subject]=0A=0A= =0ASpeaking of skydiving - - this is how I celebrated my birthday this morn= ing!=0AWoohoo,=0A=C2=A0=0AAl=0A=C2=A0=0A-----Original Message-----=0AFrom: = Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of= Mike Wills=0ASent: Thursday, May 20, 2010 7:25 PM=0ATo: Rotary motors in a= ircraft=0ASubject: [FlyRotary] Re: tehachapi [off subject]=0A=C2=A0=0AThere= 's a skydive operator who parks his plane right next to my hangar (Cessna 2= 10). I've always been amazed that he hasn=E2=80=99t had to dead stick that = thing in. First thing in the morning he fires it up, taxies to the active, = and immediate full power takeoff with the engine still stone cold. No run u= p.=C2=A0Back on the ground 10 - 15 minutes later. Repeat process all day lo= ng. Of course they did just put a new engine in it.=0A=C2=A0=0AMike Wills= =0A=C2=A0=0AFrom:H & J Johnson =0ASent:Thursday, May 20, 2010 11:05 AM=0ATo= :Rotary motors in aircraft =0ASubject:[FlyRotary] Re: tehachapi [off subjec= t]=0A=C2=A0=0AI've ~1000hrs of flying sky divers which is=C2=A0a similar st= yle of flying. [=C2=A0except we had to take them 'all the way up' :)] Stand= ard proceedure was to fly pretty much max power [limited to 20-21" IIRC, in= a 182 w/ a 470]. We'd be back to ~18" at 12000, once we dropped the divers= it was red line on the airspeed [unless it was bumpy due to daytime heatin= g]=C2=A0and keep=C2=A0the nose down.=C2=A0"Warping" was frowned upon [where= the plane is stuck in a turn and then you stick the G's on and look out yo= ur window to watch the wings flex [or warp]] although you needed to pull so= me G's at some point as you couldn't just go in a straight line forever. = =0AIt's a bit unsettling the first time you watch those wings flex.. We'd o= nly pull until we couldn't see the outboard screw heads [holding the tips o= n]=C2=A0=C2=A0and just try and hold that many g's while not getting into a = spiral [picking up speed]. All the time we are screaming down, we're mainta= ining 18" of MAP and every 1000ft we'd pull off another 1/2". By the time w= e got down to tree top level you'd be almost at idle and if you planned it = right you wouldn't need to add any power before=C2=A0touch down, just bleed= speed, yank the flaps [manual flaps on those old 182's] on the base/final = turn and grease 'er in on a=C2=A0grass strip [w/ a 150ft hill at one end an= d pine trees at the other :)]. =0ASomeone had taken a pic=C2=A0at the drop = zone of one of my 'last ride' flights [last flight of the day as the sun wa= s setting] where you can see the tip lights, one over the other [vertically= as the plane was pretty much in a ~90deg bank @ ~ 200ft] as I'm coming 'ro= und to final, all in that evening 'sweet light' w/ pine trees as far as you= could see in the background...=C2=A0 Loved that picture..=0AIt certainly w= asn't "for the faint of heart" flying.=0ANever blew a jug on any of my dive= planes on any of the seasons I flew, so must have been doing something rig= ht. [However, I did have a jumper hit the tail due to an early chute deploy= ment.. but thats another story]=0ASome=C2=A0[most?!]=C2=A0days I miss that = crazy flying [compared to the hrs of straight a level I have to do now :)]= =0AJ Johnson=0A=C2=A0=0A> Ray, =0A> =0A> Sounds like your procedure works. = One of the tow pilots where I =0A> used to soar would basically chop power = and go into an inverted =0A> military break to the left after release and t= hen some sort of =0A> Walter Mitty full flap super slip to landing. The las= t part looked =0A> about like a 100 ft rope break drill except worse! =0A> = =0A> It saves time and looks impressive as hell until the engine needs =0A>= cylinders 1000 hrs before it should! Tow planes are one place =0A> where l= iquid cooling would have some huge advantages. I think =0A> there was a clu= b over in Europe that put a liquid cooled auto =0A> engine in a Pawnee. In = an ideal tow plane you could do what my =0A> former tow pilot did with no p= roblems....It would also be nice if =0A> they had dive brakes. It might be = more fun to fly the tow plane =0A> than the gliders at that point...;-) =0A= > =0A> Ideal tow plane pattern. =0A> =0A> Establish release end of downwind= @ 3Kft or so =0A> Chop Power =0A> Roll inverted =0A> Pull back on stick = =0A> Deploy dive brakes =0A> Dive for end of runway =0A> Pull out of dive = =0A> deploy flaps =0A> Flare and touch down dirty =0A> bleed off speed and = stop ready to hook up the next glider. =0A> clean up do over. =0A> =0A> I r= ealize this would give the 5 mile final types a heart =0A> attack...but it = would be fun. Maybe make it a two seater so you =0A> could charge for rides= ;-) =0A> =0A> Monty =0A>=C2=A0 ----- Original Message ----- =0A>=C2=A0 Fro= m: Ray Cole =0A>=C2=A0 To: Rotary motors in aircraft =0A>=C2=A0 Sent: Thurs= day, May 20, 2010 12:06 AM =0A>=C2=A0 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: tehachapi [o= ff subject] =0A> =0A> =0A>=C2=A0 Hello Monty, =0A> =0A>=C2=A0 This discussi= on brought back thoughts I had when I was active in =0A> our local Soaring = group. I thought a three rotor would work well =0A> in the nose of our Pipe= r Pawnee for towing. Your are correct in =0A> that the 0-540 engine does no= t make full TBO standards. The trick =0A> is at release to dump full flaps = and slowly reduce power as the =0A> engine cools while diving for the runwa= y. In a perfect launch, the =0A> temps and the flare occur at about the sam= e. It is amazing that =0A> for the most part we were getting pretty good en= gine life. =0A> =0A>=C2=A0 Good to see your post. =0A> =0A>=C2=A0 Ray =0A> = =0A--=0A=C2=A0=0AHomepage:=C2=A0 http://www.flyrotary.com/=0A=C2=A0=0AArchi= ve and UnSub:=C2=A0=C2=A0 http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/= List.html --0-2116995211-1275252675=:68682 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
=0A
Happy Birthday Al !!....................= Seems there are several other crazys in this group that have jumped from=0A
still functioning aircraft !!.............My first jump was take= n when I was 45 years old because I wanted to fly
=0A
a home= built airplane and I wanted to be less afraid of using a parachute then sta= ying in a compromised
=0A
aircraft (Spell that "Unsurvivable = Situation")................Of course that led to another expensive hobby...= ........
=0A
  
Kelly Troyer
"Dyke Delta"_13B RO= TARY Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold =0A
=0A

=0A
=0A=
=0AFrom: Al Gi= etzen <ALVentures@cox.net>
To= : Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net><= BR>Sent: Sun, May 30, 2010 = 2:14:52 PM
Subject: [Fly= Rotary] Re: tehachapi [off subject]

=0A=0A=0A
=0A

Speaking o= f skydiving - - this is how I celebrated my birthday this morning!

=0A

Woohoo,=

=0A

 

=0A

Al

=0A

 

=0A

-----Original Message-----
From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrota= ry@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Mike Wills
Sent:= Thursday, May 20, 2010 7:25 PM
To:= Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: tehachapi [off subject]

=0A

 =

=0A
=0A

T= here's a skydive operator who parks his plane right next to my hangar (Cess= na 210). I've always been amazed that he hasn=E2=80=99t had to dead stick t= hat thing in. First thing in the morning he fires it up, taxies to the acti= ve, and immediate full power takeoff with the engine still stone cold. No r= un up. Back on the ground 10 - 15 minutes later. Repeat process all da= y long. Of course they did just put a new engine in it.

=0A
=0A

 =

=0A
=0A

Mike Wills

=0A
=0A
=0A

 

=0A
=0A
=0A

From:<= FONT size=3D2 face=3DTahoma> = H & J Johnson

=0A
=0A

Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2010 11:05 AM<= /SPAN>

=0A=0A
=0A

Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: tehachapi [off subject]

=0A
=0A

 =

=0A

I've ~1000hrs= of flying sky divers which is a similar style of flying. [ excep= t we had to take them 'all the way up' :)] Standard proceedure was to fly p= retty much max power [limited to 20-21" IIRC, in a 182 w/ a 470]. We'd be b= ack to ~18" at 12000, once we dropped the divers it was red line on the air= speed [unless it was bumpy due to daytime heating] and keep the n= ose down. "Warping" was frowned upon [where the plane is stuck in a tu= rn and then you stick the G's on and look out your window to watch the wing= s flex [or warp]] although you needed to pull some G's at some point as you= couldn't just go in a straight line forever. =0A

It's a bit unsettling the firs= t time you watch those wings flex.. We'd only pull until we couldn't see th= e outboard screw heads [holding the tips on]  and just try and ho= ld that many g's while not getting into a spiral [picking up speed]. All th= e time we are screaming down, we're maintaining 18" of MAP and every 1000ft= we'd pull off another 1/2". By the time we got down to tree top level you'= d be almost at idle and if you planned it right you wouldn't need to add an= y power before touch down, just bleed speed, yank the flaps [manual fl= aps on those old 182's] on the base/final turn and grease 'er in on a = grass strip [w/ a 150ft hill at one end and pine trees at the other :)].

=0A

= Som= eone had taken a pic at the drop zone of one of my 'last ride' flights= [last flight of the day as the sun was setting] where you can see the tip = lights, one over the other [vertically as the plane was pretty much in a ~9= 0deg bank @ ~ 200ft] as I'm coming 'round to final, all in that evening 'sw= eet light' w/ pine trees as far as you could see in the background... = Loved that picture..

=0A

It certainly wasn't "for the faint of heart" flying.

=0A

= Nev= er blew a jug on any of my dive planes on any of the seasons I flew, so mus= t have been doing something right. [However, I did have a jumper hit the ta= il due to an early chute deployment.. but thats another story]

=0A

Some [mo= st?!] days I miss that crazy flying [compared to the hrs of straight a= level I have to do now :)]

=0A

J Johnson

=0A

 

=0A

> Ray,
>
> Sounds like your procedure works. One of th= e tow pilots where I
> used to soar would basically chop power and g= o into an inverted
> military break to the left after release and th= en some sort of
> Walter Mitty full flap super slip to landing. The = last part looked
> about like a 100 ft rope break drill except worse= !
>
> It saves time and looks impressive as hell until the en= gine needs
> cylinders 1000 hrs before it should! Tow planes are one= place
> where liquid cooling would have some huge advantages. I thi= nk
> there was a club over in Europe that put a liquid cooled auto <= BR>> engine in a Pawnee. In an ideal tow plane you could do what my
= > former tow pilot did with no problems....It would also be nice if
= > they had dive brakes. It might be more fun to fly the tow plane
> than the gliders at that point...;-)
> <= BR>> Ideal tow plane pattern.
>
> Establish release end of= downwind @ 3Kft or so
> Chop Power
> Roll inverted
> = Pull back on stick
> Deploy dive brakes
> Dive for end of run= way
> Pull out of dive
> deploy flaps
> Flare and touc= h down dirty
> bleed off speed and stop ready to hook up the next gl= ider.
> clean up do over.
>
> I realize this would giv= e the 5 mile final types a heart
> attack...but it would be fun. May= be make it a two seater so you
> could charge for rides ;-)
>=
> Monty
>  ----- Original Message -----
>  = From: Ray Cole
>  To: Rotary motors in aircraft
>  = Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2010 12:06 AM
>  Subject: [FlyRotary] R= e: tehachapi [off subject]
>
>
>  Hello Monty,
>
>  This discussion brought back thoughts I had= when I was active in
> our local Soaring group. I thought a three r= otor would work well
> in the nose of our Piper Pawnee for towing. Y= our are correct in
> that the 0-540 engine does not make full TBO st= andards. The trick
> is at release to dump full flaps and slowly red= uce power as the
> engine cools while diving for the runway. In a pe= rfect launch, the
> temps and the flare occur at about the same. It = is amazing that
> for the most part we were getting pretty good engi= ne life.
>
>  Good to see your post.
>
>&n= bsp; Ray
> 

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