X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from fmailhost01.isp.att.net ([207.115.11.51] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.7) with ESMTP id 4328243 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 27 May 2010 12:35:11 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=207.115.11.51; envelope-from=bbradburry@bellsouth.net Received: from desktop (adsl-85-113-131.mco.bellsouth.net[98.85.113.131]) by isp.att.net (frfwmhc01) with SMTP id <20100527163435H0100jpa9pe>; Thu, 27 May 2010 16:34:35 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [98.85.113.131] From: "Bill Bradburry" To: "'Rotary motors in aircraft'" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: Rotary HP reviisted....now that I know more about it all...kinda. Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 12:34:36 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001F_01CAFD98.F83C2CF0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: Acr9uG23us9m3zexTtOXdCFh76naUQAATCAA X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6001.18049 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01CAFD98.F83C2CF0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The stock Renesis HP curve is just about linear with rpm. It maxes at about 238 at 8500 rpm, but is only about 170 or so at 6000. The torque curve is almost flat. It maxes out at 159 ftlbs at about 5500 rpm. It suspect that is why the static rpm on a lot of NA engines that are over propped goes to between 5300 and 5800 rpm. Bill B _____ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of wrjjrs@aol.com Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 12:18 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Rotary HP reviisted....now that I know more about it all...kinda. George, Et all. The p port engine is actually less stressfull on most of the seals. The intake port is in a low stress area, and a low temperature area. The 1-11/16 p-port makes 200 HP at under 7000 RPM. The 1-3/4" intake should dyno even higher but will require higher RPM. Bill Jepson -----Original Message----- From: George Lendich To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Thu, May 27, 2010 12:54 am Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Rotary HP reviisted....now that I know more about it all...kinda. Chris, Can't answer all your questions, as I don't know how the different port shapes affect HP. I can however give you my appreciation of Hp and that is; a standard side port which provide approximately 160 to 180hp if really lucky. The different side ports vary up to 200 hp +, however the PP is the ( our) answer in my opinion, as it gives a direct shot into the combustion chamber. If you use the minimum size PP ( 44mm) for our RPM ( up to 7,200/ 7,500) you will achieve the 200hp -230hp+. It all varies with how efficient the inlet and exhaust is done. I know it doesn't answer all your questions, but it's enough for me. Now that Bill Jepson is working on the new PP things should be more reliable. Reliability is subjective, if you get more power your putting more stress and wear on the engine - naturally. Apart from that there aren't any reliability issues with different ports.- that's IMHO. George ( down under) I know this must have been discussed, but perhaps more in passing or in some of Tracy's literature (now kinda dated, especially with some of the strides he continues to make), but what is the conventional wisdom as to rotary horsepower? I know when I first started looking into it, oh many years ago, it seemed the impression I got was that you could pretty easily achieve 200 hp, however, that is now a bit lower. Some of the tricks to get the higher HP was mild and medium porting, bridge, "J" and "P" porting. Then there was the option of turbo...the one, in combination with a medium street port, I chose. What say Ye? When started today, mine was turning about 6200 rpm at 35 MP (with a 3 lb spring in the wastegate).....it surged forward against the chocks and breaks. IVO prop full fine. Nice feel of power even if it likes to heat up fast in 90 degree weather like this. Also, I think this was discussed before too, when I go WOT my engine develops up to about 6250 rpm, but then drops a couple/few hundred rpm to usually just under 6000....sometimes just above. Thoughts? Ed, (perhaps Al)it seems you may have chimed in before. Regrettably, when I search the archives I tend to get frustrated due to thread drift. I heard a lot about porting when I was initially investigating all this and I chose to use a medium street port. I let Mazdatrix do the work. That being said, I have read all but nothing on others porting their engines (other than a LOT from PL on P ports). Since standard porting does not reportedly effect reliability, only, potentially low low idle (I can idle as low as about 1300 rpm when warm smoothly) why is it not discussed and/or utilized more? Just curious guys/gals. Discuss All the best, Chris Barber Houston, GSOT _____ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [ flyrotary@lancaironline.net] on behalf of Ed Anderson [ eanderson@carolina.rr.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 5:15 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Emailing: 3 view w-10 003, first flight Always loved the lines of a Tailwind - in fact, I have the plans and license to build a W-10 sitting on my book shelf. Unfortunately, I doubt I'll ever get around to it. Ok with thermostat in the system holding it at 190F - we really won't know how much reserve capacity you have in your cooling system until the power goes up. I agree with George, 200HP out of an N/A 13B is really pushing it. I think 180HP is a more realistic expectation - but, hey you never know. It amazing how power goes up when things come together. Enjoy and fly safe. Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson@carolina.rr.com http://www.andersonee.com http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html http://www.flyrotary.com/ http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm _____ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [ mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of John Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 2:36 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Emailing: 3 view w-10 003, first flight My most humble thank you to flyrotary and all you fine folks that have helped bring my project to flight. Ed and many others whom I won't try to name here because I would miss many. The plane is a Wittman Tailwind W-10, empty wt. is 981 and it is a tri-gear, Wt. is within 6 #'s of similar trikes w/ 0-320 engines. I have the thermostat in the engine because most of the year it is not very hot, if we get 50 days with the temperature over 70, we have had a hot summer, not a lot of beach bunny activity. 7-1 I'll be 74 and have realized my dream, now it's all gravy. Again, thanks guys!! JohnD Your message is ready to be sent with the following file or link attachments: 3 view w-10 003 ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01CAFD98.F83C2CF0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

The stock Renesis HP curve is just = about linear with rpm.  It maxes at about 238 at 8500 rpm, but is only = about 170 or so at 6000.  The torque curve is almost flat.  It maxes out = at 159 ftlbs at about 5500 rpm.  It suspect that is why the static rpm on = a lot of NA engines that are over propped goes to between 5300 and 5800 = rpm.

 

Bill B

 

From: = Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of wrjjrs@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, May 27, = 2010 12:18 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Rotary HP reviisted....now that I know more about it = all...kinda.

 

George, Et = all.

The p port engine is actually less stressfull on most of the seals. The intake port is in a low stress = area, and a low temperature area. The 1-11/16 p-port makes 200 HP at under 7000 RPM. = The 1-3/4" intake should dyno even higher but will require higher = RPM.

Bill Jepson

 

-----Original Message-----
From: George Lendich <lendich@aanet.com.au>
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Thu, May 27, 2010 12:54 am
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Rotary HP reviisted....now that I know more = about it all...kinda.

 Chris,

Can't answer all your questions, = as I don't know how the different  port shapes affect HP. I can however = give you my appreciation of  Hp  and that is; a standard side = port which provide approximately 160 to 180hp if really lucky. The = different side ports vary up to 200 hp +,  however the PP is the ( our) = answer in my opinion, as it gives a direct shot into the combustion chamber. If you = use the minimum size PP ( 44mm) for our RPM ( up to 7,200/ 7,500) you will = achieve the 200hp -230hp+. It all varies with how efficient the inlet and exhaust is = done.

I know it doesn't answer all your questions, but it's enough for me.

Now that Bill Jepson is working on = the new PP things should be more reliable.

Reliability is subjective, if you = get more power your putting more stress and wear on the engine - naturally. = Apart from that there aren't any reliability issues with different ports.- = that's IMHO.

George ( down = under)

I know this must have been = discussed, but perhaps more in passing or in some of Tracy's literature (now kinda dated, especially with some of the strides he continues to make), but what is the conventional wisdom as to rotary horsepower?  I know when I first started looking into it, oh many = years ago, it seemed the impression I got was that you could pretty easily = achieve 200 hp, however, that is now a bit lower.  Some of the tricks to = get the higher HP was mild and medium porting, bridge, "J" and = "P" porting.  Then there was the option of turbo...the one, in = combination with a medium street port, I chose.

 

What say = Ye?

 

When started today, mine was = turning about 6200 rpm at 35 MP (with a 3 lb spring in the wastegate).....it = surged forward against the chocks and breaks.  IVO prop full fine. = Nice feel of power even if it likes to heat up fast in 90 degree weather like = this.

 

Also, I think this was discussed = before too, when I go WOT my engine develops up to about 6250 rpm, = but then drops a couple/few hundred rpm to usually just under 6000....sometimes = just above.  Thoughts?  Ed, (perhaps Al)it seems you may have = chimed in before.  Regrettably, when I search the archives I tend to get frustrated due to thread drift.

 

I heard a lot about porting when = I was initially investigating all this and I chose to use a medium street = port.  I let Mazdatrix do the work.  That being said, I have read all = but nothing on others porting their engines (other than a LOT from PL on P ports).  Since standard porting does not reportedly = effect reliability, only, potentially low low idle (I can idle as low as = about 1300 rpm when warm smoothly) why is it not discussed and/or utilized = more?

 

Just curious guys/gals.  = Discuss <g>

 

All the = best,

 

Chris Barber

Houston, = GSOT

From: = Rotary motors in aircraft [flyrotary@lancaironline.net] = on behalf of Ed Anderson [eanderson@carolina.rr.com]
= Sent: Wednesday, May 26, = 2010 5:15 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Emailing: 3 view w-10 003, first flight

Always loved the lines of a = Tailwind – in fact, I have the plans and license to build a W-10 sitting on = my book shelf.  Unfortunately, I doubt I’ll ever get around to = it.

 

Ok with thermostat in the system = holding it at 190F – we really won’t know how much reserve capacity = you have in your cooling system until the power goes up.

 

I agree with George, 200HP out of = an N/A 13B is really pushing it.  I think 180HP is a more realistic = expectation – but, hey you never know.  It amazing how power goes up when = things come together.

 

Enjoy and fly safe. =

From: Rotary motors in = aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net= ] On Behalf Of John
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, = 2010 2:36 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] = Emailing: 3 view w-10 003, first flight

 

My most humble thank you to = flyrotary and all you fine folks that have helped bring my project to = flight.  Ed and many others whom I won't try to name here because I would miss many.  The plane is a Wittman Tailwind W-10, empty wt. is 981 and = it is a tri-gear,  Wt. is within 6 #'s of similar trikes w/ 0-320 = engines.  I have the thermostat in the engine because most of the year it is not = very hot, if we get 50 days with the temperature over 70, we have had a hot = summer, not a lot of beach bunny activity.  7-1 I'll be 74 and have realized my = dream, now it's all gravy.  Again, thanks guys!!  = JohnD

Your message is ready to be sent = with the following file or link attachments:
3 view w-10 003

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