X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from imr-da02.mx.aol.com ([205.188.105.144] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.7) with ESMTP id 4328210 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 27 May 2010 12:19:40 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=205.188.105.144; envelope-from=WRJJRS@aol.com Received: from imo-ma01.mx.aol.com (imo-ma01.mx.aol.com [64.12.78.136]) by imr-da02.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id o4RGJ1Pi014386 for ; Thu, 27 May 2010 12:19:01 -0400 Received: from WRJJRS@aol.com by imo-ma01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.9.) id q.d7b.b7e5e24 (43893) for ; Thu, 27 May 2010 12:18:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtprly-db01.mx.aol.com (smtprly-db01.mx.aol.com [205.188.249.152]) by cia-dc05.mx.aol.com (v129.4) with ESMTP id MAILCIADC056-5bc94bfe9b4d362; Thu, 27 May 2010 12:18:25 -0400 Received: from webmail-d099 (webmail-d099.sim.aol.com [205.188.255.20]) by smtprly-db01.mx.aol.com (v129.4) with ESMTP id MAILSMTPRLYDB018-5bc94bfe9b4d362; Thu, 27 May 2010 12:18:21 -0400 References: To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Rotary HP reviisted....now that I know more about it all...kinda. Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 12:18:21 -0400 X-AOL-IP: 65.113.35.181 In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 From: wrjjrs@aol.com X-MB-Message-Type: User Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8CCCBCF5C0F203C_7C4_2304_webmail-d099.sysops.aol.com" X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 31793-STANDARD Received: from 65.113.35.181 by webmail-d099.sysops.aol.com (205.188.255.20) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Thu, 27 May 2010 12:18:21 -0400 Message-Id: <8CCCBCF5C07FC07-7C4-1076@webmail-d099.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-SENDER: WRJJRS@aol.com ----------MB_8CCCBCF5C0F203C_7C4_2304_webmail-d099.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" George, Et all. The p port engine is actually less stressfull on most of the seals. The in= take port is in a low stress area, and a low temperature area. The 1-11/16= p-port makes 200 HP at under 7000 RPM. The 1-3/4" intake should dyno even= higher but will require higher RPM. Bill Jepson -----Original Message----- From: George Lendich To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Thu, May 27, 2010 12:54 am Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Rotary HP reviisted....now that I know more about= it all...kinda. Chris, Can't answer all your questions, as I don't know how the different port= shapes affect HP. I can however give you my appreciation of Hp and that= is; a standard side port which provide approximately 160 to 180hp if real= ly lucky. The different side ports vary up to 200 hp +, however the PP is= the ( our) answer in my opinion, as it gives a direct shot into the combu= stion chamber. If you use the minimum size PP ( 44mm) for our RPM ( up to= 7,200/ 7,500) you will achieve the 200hp -230hp+. It all varies with how= efficient the inlet and exhaust is done. I know it doesn't answer all your questions, but it's enough for me. Now that Bill Jepson is working on the new PP things should be more reliab= le. Reliability is subjective, if you get more power your putting more stress= and wear on the engine - naturally. Apart from that there aren't any reli= ability issues with different ports.- that's IMHO. George ( down under) I know this must have been discussed, but perhaps more in passing or in so= me of Tracy's literature (now kinda dated, especially with some of the str= ides he continues to make), but what is the conventional wisdom as to rota= ry horsepower? I know when I first started looking into it, oh many years= ago, it seemed the impression I got was that you could pretty easily achi= eve 200 hp, however, that is now a bit lower. Some of the tricks to get= the higher HP was mild and medium porting, bridge, "J" and "P" porting.= Then there was the option of turbo...the one, in combination with a medi= um street port, I chose. =20 What say Ye? =20 When started today, mine was turning about 6200 rpm at 35 MP (with a 3 lb= spring in the wastegate).....it surged forward against the chocks and bre= aks. IVO prop full fine. Nice feel of power even if it likes to heat up= fast in 90 degree weather like this. =20 Also, I think this was discussed before too, when I go WOT my engine devel= ops up to about 6250 rpm, but then drops a couple/few hundred rpm to usual= ly just under 6000....sometimes just above. Thoughts? Ed, (perhaps Al)it= seems you may have chimed in before. Regrettably, when I search the arch= ives I tend to get frustrated due to thread drift. =20 I heard a lot about porting when I was initially investigating all this an= d I chose to use a medium street port. I let Mazdatrix do the work. That= being said, I have read all but nothing on others porting their engines= (other than a LOT from PL on P ports). Since standard porting does not= reportedly effect reliability, only, potentially low low idle (I can idle= as low as about 1300 rpm when warm smoothly) why is it not discussed and/= or utilized more? =20 Just curious guys/gals. Discuss =20 All the best, =20 Chris Barber Houston, GSOT From: Rotary motors in aircraft [flyrotary@lancaironline.net] on behalf of= Ed Anderson [eanderson@carolina.rr.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 5:15 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Emailing: 3 view w-10 003, first flight Always loved the lines of a Tailwind =E2=80=93 in fact, I have the plans= and license to build a W-10 sitting on my book shelf. Unfortunately, I= doubt I=E2=80=99ll ever get around to it. =20 Ok with thermostat in the system holding it at 190F =E2=80=93 we really wo= n=E2=80=99t know how much reserve capacity you have in your cooling system= until the power goes up. =20 I agree with George, 200HP out of an N/A 13B is really pushing it. I thin= k 180HP is a more realistic expectation =E2=80=93 but, hey you never know.= It amazing how power goes up when things come together. =20 Enjoy and fly safe.=20 Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson@carolina.rr.com http://www.andersonee.com http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html http://www.flyrotary.com/ http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Be= half Of John Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 2:36 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Emailing: 3 view w-10 003, first flight =20 My most humble thank you to flyrotary and all you fine folks that have hel= ped bring my project to flight. Ed and many others whom I won't try to na= me here because I would miss many. The plane is a Wittman Tailwind W-10,= empty wt. is 981 and it is a tri-gear, Wt. is within 6 #'s of similar tr= ikes w/ 0-320 engines. I have the thermostat in the engine because most= of the year it is not very hot, if we get 50 days with the temperature ov= er 70, we have had a hot summer, not a lot of beach bunny activity. 7-1= I'll be 74 and have realized my dream, now it's all gravy. Again, thanks= guys!! JohnD Your message is ready to be sent with the following file or link attachmen= ts: 3 view w-10 003 ----------MB_8CCCBCF5C0F203C_7C4_2304_webmail-d099.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8"
George, Et all.
The p port engine is actually less stressfull on most of the seals.= The intake port is in a low stress area, and a low temperature area. The= 1-11/16 p-port makes 200 HP at under 7000 RPM. The 1-3/4" intake should= dyno even higher but will require higher RPM.
Bill Jepson



-----Original Message-----
From: George Lendich <lendich@aanet.com.au>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Thu, May 27, 2010 12:54 am
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Rotary HP reviisted....now that I know more about= it all...kinda.

 Chris,
Can't answer all your questions, as I don= 't know how the different  port shapes affect HP. I can however give= you my appreciation of  Hp  and that is; a standard side= port which provide approximately 160 to 180hp if really lucky. The= different side ports vary up to 200 hp +,  however the PP is the (= our) answer in my opinion, as it gives a direct shot into the combustion= chamber. If you use the minimum size PP ( 44mm) for our RPM ( up to 7,200= / 7,500) you will achieve the 200hp -230hp+. It all varies with how effici= ent the inlet and exhaust is done.
I know it doesn't answer all your questio= ns, but it's enough for me.
Now that Bill Jepson is working on the ne= w PP things should be more reliable.
Reliability is subjective, if you get mor= e power your putting more stress and wear on the engine - naturally. Apart= from that there aren't any reliability issues with different ports.- that= 's IMHO.
George ( down under)
I know this must have been discussed, but perhaps more in passing or= in some of Tracy's literature (now kinda dated, especi= ally with some of the strides he continues to make), but what is the conve= ntional wisdom as to rotary horsepower?  I know when I first started= looking into it, oh many years ago, it seemed the impression I got was th= at you could pretty easily achieve 200 hp, however, that is now a bit lowe= r.  Some of the tricks to get the higher HP was mild and medium porti= ng, bridge, "J" and "P" porting.  Then there was the option of turbo.= ..the one, in combination with a medium street port, I chose.
 
What say Ye?
 
When started today, mine was turning about 6200 rpm at 35 MP (with a= 3 lb spring in the wastegate).....it surged forward against= the chocks and breaks.  IVO prop full fine. Nice= feel of power even if it likes to heat up fast in 90 degree weather like= this.
 
Also, I think this was discussed before too, when I go WOT my engine develops up to about 6250 rpm, but then dro= ps a couple/few hundred rpm to usually just under 6000....sometimes just= above.  Thoughts?  Ed, (perhaps Al)it seems you may have chimed= in before.  Regrettably, when I search the archives I tend to get frustrated due to thread drift.
 
I heard a lot about porting when I was initially investigating all th= is and I chose to use a medium street port.  I let Mazdatrix<= /A> do the work.  That being said, I have read all but nothing= on others porting their engines (other than a LOT from PL on P ports).&nb= sp; Since standard porting does not reportedly effect reliability, only,= potentially low low idle (I can idle as low as about= 1300 rpm when warm smoothly) why is it not discussed and/or utilized more= ?
 
Just curious guys/gals.  Discuss <g>
 
All the best,
 
Chris Barber
Houston, GSOT
From: Rotary motors in aircraft [flyrotary@lancaironline.net] on behalf= of Ed Anderson [eanderson@ca= rolina.rr.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 5:15 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Emailing: 3 view w-10 003, first flight
Always loved the li= nes of a Tailwind =E2=80=93 in fact, I have the plans and license to build= a W-10 sitting on my book shelf.  Unfortunately, I doubt I=E2=80=99l= l ever get around to it.
 = ;
Ok with thermostat= in the system holding it at 190F =E2=80=93 we really won=E2=80=99t know= how much reserve capacity you have in your cooling system until the power= goes up.
 = ;
I agree with George= , 200HP out of an N/A 13B is really pushing it.  I think 180HP is a= more realistic expectation =E2=80=93 but, hey you never know.  It am= azing how power goes up when things come together.
 = ;
Enjoy and fly safe.=
From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of John
Sent: Wednesday, May 26,= 2010 2:36 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircr= aft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Email= ing: 3 view w-10 003, first flight
 
My most humble thank you to flyrotary and all= you fine folks that have helped bring my project to flight.&nbs= p; Ed and many others whom I won't try to name here because I would miss= many.  The plane is a Wittman Tailwind W-10, empty wt. is 981 and it= is a tri-gear,  Wt. is within 6 #'s of similar trikes w/ 0-320 engin= es.  I have the thermostat in the engine because most of the year it= is not very hot, if we get 50 days with the temperature over 70, we have= had a hot summer, not a lot of beach bunny activity.  7-1 I'll be 74= and have realized my dream, now it's all gravy.  Again, thanks guys!= !  JohnD
Your message is ready= to be sent with the following file or link attachments:
3 view w-10 003
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