X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from web83914.mail.sp1.yahoo.com ([69.147.92.123] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.7) with SMTP id 4328095 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 27 May 2010 10:29:09 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=69.147.92.123; envelope-from=keltro@att.net Received: (qmail 31505 invoked by uid 60001); 27 May 2010 14:28:32 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=att.net; s=s1024; t=1274970512; bh=jSCWgCjUt8mDxWKIWc2gTSE/+6b4eETOGKw66iSzgK8=; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=v/zzmymMB4EaY+tcUlItKFMibF+ZpSeAGt1gwdMQnbyHbRHcWmUfnTqTEXqQRJ0MUBrZKADFvBV9QDPrnV7M1HLMJ4/43DRv2I+lFU481dKISsTYw5TUT0DSN394hZtJDNVw+ivfWVCfeSxY1EGQPJmwCOtMeA5qaDWCMJnOxzk= DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=att.net; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=HT/kYA1gX8VQmxC2fqBFV0neN8v5bjUfD7Nz2fANRMBuMxqVDdkrGmHb6/PZJi7g6gBlfUftDZd4nNXNaqDymnvQz2iczKXxrslv5Kq5h2fhUyR04qYPc857LmzmeavtYDQ4NnkPImDH+NJCBRr9ze2iDf4Lo/AtVCh8edWwj74=; Message-ID: <448454.31414.qm@web83914.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: uyM5TzoVM1kzh6555Ql1OyZBfV3N5R7uhn52KZlfHM8cbml bwn3vEwOgt.61VYIP8amJ9VuzIKPUTWY9vIlyt6QewvfuPkT7Jg3pkH_Kei. BwajKJ.XllSU5bGOun73qC068UUF71TF8paY0oqXf7usc14_A58K140dhH4g BTNo4hhkcK80BnUDZXuwXmtQBoqqRbDFOV06H6msLztHd6ES2uwaqUsm3RMd YzRu5YROmggvM9tmZ0jLsJuTwB7cO5akqpjB.dBr3SF43fj52eapLHLYfWMg RFbU0_zBaQVgsKy3y1_b0AO.079P3vnt2J9rPqjf9vlJ0L3TDvcRhIPgDJJL eSH.H4x7ycaa5_jrzMJM- Received: from [208.114.40.144] by web83914.mail.sp1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 27 May 2010 07:28:31 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/374.4 YahooMailWebService/0.8.103.269680 References: Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 07:28:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Kelly Troyer Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Rotary HP revisited To: Rotary motors in aircraft In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1773195234-1274970511=:31414" --0-1773195234-1274970511=:31414 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable John ,=0A=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0What is your "IVO" diameter,= =C2=A0number of blades and are your blades the 30 to 90 or 45 to105 degree = pitch ? If I=0Aremember correctly you have the 2.17 to 1 RD1B=C2=A0gearbox.= ................=C2=A0=0A=C2=A0Kelly Troyer=0A"Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engin= e=0A"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2=0A"Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A__= ______________________________=0AFrom: John Slade =0ATo: Rotary motors in aircraft =0ASent: Th= u, May 27, 2010 8:44:43 AM=0ASubject: [FlyRotary] Re: Rotary HP reviisted..= ..now that I know more about it all...kinda.=0A=0AHi Ed, Chris, =0AThat all= makes sense, but I can add something from experience with the IVO prop - T= he minimum pitch setting seems to optimum for take-off power. When I change= d from a big fixed pitch prop to an IVO at minimum pitch the difference in = acceleration was very marked. I have never taken off with the pitch at a hi= gher setting than minimum, so I can't attest to the effect, but if you forg= et to put the pitch on full fine on the downwind, a go-around is much less = doable. =0A=0ASomething else about the IVO that might help, Chris, is that = when you throttle back on final the airplane will want to slow down quite q= uickly. This is somewhat unexpected if you're used to a fixed pitch prop th= at tends to make the airplane float on final. The combination of fine pitch= at idle, both rudders and the landing brake make a Cozy (or Velocity I wou= ld think) come down like an elevator. =0A=0AOne way to check that you have = enough power would be to measure how much runway you use to reach, say, 70k= ts. If it's more than 2000' I'd say you're under powered. With a turbo and = an IVO the acceleration should feel like a good sports car, and the increas= e from 70 kts to flying speed will only take a few seconds.=0AMy 2c.=0AJohn= =0A=0Ato Ed Anderson wrote: =0ANo easy answer =E2=80=93 to all the nuances = of producing power, Chris. =0A>=C2=A0=0A>200 HP is a possibility depending = on lots of factors (like your total induction system set up, however, I bel= ieve that 180 HP is more in line with the likely maximum on the older 13B.= =C2=A0 The Renesis a bit more/=0A>=C2=A0=0A>Fuel flow is as much an indicat= ion of power as anything short of a dyno and/or extensive aircraft performa= nce numbers. =0A>=C2=A0=0A>=C2=A0RPM (in my opinion) =C2=A0has too many var= iables =E2=80=93 like I have a 74x88 prop with a 2.85:1 gearbox =C2=A0and c= an turn 6000-6200 rpm static =E2=80=93 does that mean I am making more or l= ess HP than you at 6200 rpm at 35=E2=80=9D Hg.=C2=A0 It all depends on what= prop load each of our engines are seeing at that rpm.=C2=A0 Generally as a= rough rule of thumb you can figure 10 hp per gallon/hour of fuel flow.=C2= =A0 So it you have a fuel flow of 16 gallon/hour then your engine could be = producing around 160 HP.=C2=A0 18 GPH =3D 180 HP, etc.=C2=A0 Now your power= won=E2=80=99t be more than that, but it could be less.=C2=A0 The rotary ca= n flow considerably more fuel without making useful power than a piston eng= ine, but it is a useful rule of thumb.=0A>=C2=A0=0A>I street ported my 91 T= urbo block myself using a Mazdatrix street port template.=C2=A0 I went thro= ugh 5 intake designs and several muffler experiments before finding one tha= t appear to give me the power I wanted.=C2=A0 On a cold morning with OAT < = 50F, I can get up to 6200 rpm and 18-20 GPH fuel flow with the 74x88 prop.= =C2=A0 So I feel I have my set up just about as good as its going to get = =E2=80=93 short of a forced induction system.=0A>=C2=A0=0A>With your prop s= et at max =C2=A0fine pitch, you have reduced the prop load on your engine t= o a minimum =E2=80=93 that permits your rpm to be at a maximum =E2=80=93 bu= t, that does NOT mean you are producing the power and more importantly - th= e thrust needed for safe flight.=0A>=C2=A0=0A>=C2=A0Don=E2=80=99t be mislea= d by rpm.=C2=A0 As an extreme example to make my point, Without a prop (alm= ost no load) my engine will turn 5500 rpm at idle throttle setting =E2=80= =93 but I am only flowing something like 1.5 =E2=80=93 2 GPH which means pr= oducing something like 15-20 HP even though the rpm without prop is higher = than my static was when I had my old 68x72 with a 2.17:1 gear box.=C2=A0 = =C2=A0So even though the rpm is the same or slightly greater, the engine no= t making any where near the=C2=A0 150-160 HP I made with the prop on at the= same rpm.=C2=A0 Fuel flow is not a perfect indicator but much more useful = than RPM alone in estimating your power particularly with a variable pitch = prop.=0A>=C2=A0=0A>This is important, Chris.=C2=A0 Years ago, there was a l= ong EZ builder who had a non-rotary auto engine who unfortunately ended his= first flight in a fatal crash into a cactus plant.=C2=A0 He understood the= electronics just fine, but did not understand the relationship between rpm= and thrust.=C2=A0 He set his adjustable pitch prop for maximum RPM =E2=80= =93 which mean minimum prop load, which in his case mean minimum thrust.=C2= =A0 He managed to get airborne with this limited thrust, but could not appa= rently climb out of ground effect with the flight ending on impact with a c= actus. =0A>=C2=A0=0A>=C2=A0For example, you would get your highest rpm with= a prop that absolutely no pitch which would produce minimum load on the en= gine =E2=80=93 however, I think you would agree there would not be much =E2= =80=9Cpush/Pull=E2=80=9D by such a prop set up.=C2=A0 With a variable pitch= prop, you need to find the optimum balance between rpm and thrust.=C2=A0 T= oo much rpm could indicate too little pitch (and too little thrust), too lo= w rpm could indicate too much pitch (and too little thrust) =E2=80=93 neith= er condition gives you maximum thrust.=C2=A0 =0A>=C2=A0=0A>The only way I c= an think of to find that optimum balance between rpm and thrust is to attac= h your airframe through a scale to an anchor.=C2=A0 Then measure the pull o= n the scale at various rpm and prop pitch settings.=C2=A0 This should help = you find where combination of engine rpm and prop pitch provides maximum th= rust (at least maximum static thrust =E2=80=93 which is a good start).=C2= =A0 Perhaps someone else can offer a better and easier method.=C2=A0 Yes, y= ou should be able to get a feel during taxi test =E2=80=93 although some fo= lks frown on the idea of high-speed taxi test.=C2=A0 Theoretically you coul= d use an accelerometer, some accurate speed measurements the weight of=C2= =A0 your aircraft and calculate the effective HP =E2=80=93 that has been do= ne with automobiles.=0A>=C2=A0=0A>In cases were folks are using fixed pitch= props=C2=A0 with parameters similar to those used by others, you can make = a comparison and get a rough feel for engine performance based on RPM.=C2= =A0 Unfortunately, with a variable pitch prop making such comparisons is mo= re difficult and questionable.=C2=A0 Now if you can find someone using the = same variable pitch prop you are using and compare your rpm and prop settin= gs, that is certainly something worth checking into.=0A>=C2=A0=0A>Just cont= inue to ask these kinds of questions and to think about the issues in produ= cing power and thrust =E2=80=93 you=E2=80=99ll be ready.=0A>=C2=A0=0A>Ed=0A= >=C2=A0=0A>.=C2=A0 =0A>=C2=A0=0A>Ed Anderson=0A>Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered= =0A>Matthews, NC=0A>eanderson@carolina.rr.com=0A>http://www.andersonee.com= =0A>http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html=0A>http://www.flyrotary.com/=0A>h= ttp://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW=0A>http://www.rota= ryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm=0A>=0A________________________________= =0A=0A>From:Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] = On Behalf Of Chris Barber=0A>Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 9:51 PM=0A>To: R= otary motors in aircraft=0A>Subject: [FlyRotary] Rotary HP reviisted....now= that I know more about it all...kinda.=0A>=C2=A0=0A>I know this must have = been discussed, but perhaps more in passing or in some of Tracy 's literatu= re (now=C2=A0kinda dated, especially with some of the strides he continues = to make), but what is the conventional wisdom as to rotary horsepower?=C2= =A0 I know when I first started looking into it, oh many years ago, it seem= ed the impression I got was that you could pretty easily achieve 200 hp, ho= wever, that is now a bit lower.=C2=A0 Some of the tricks to get the higher = HP was mild and medium porting, bridge, "J" and "P" porting.=C2=A0 Then the= re was the option of turbo...the one, in combination with a medium street p= ort, I chose.=0A>=C2=A0=0A>What say Ye?=0A>=C2=A0=0A>When started today, mi= ne was turning about 6200 rpm at 35 MP (with a 3 lb spring in the wastegate= ).....it surged forward against the chocks and breaks.=C2=A0=C2=A0IVO prop = full fine. Nice feel of power even if it likes to heat up fast in 90 degree= weather like this.=0A>=C2=A0=0A>Also, I think this was discussed before to= o, when I go=C2=A0WOT my engine=C2=A0develops up to about 6250 rpm, but the= n drops a couple/few hundred rpm to usually just under 6000....sometimes ju= st above.=C2=A0 Thoughts?=C2=A0 Ed, (perhaps Al)it seems you may have chime= d in before.=C2=A0 Regrettably, when I search the=C2=A0archives I tend to g= et frustrated due to thread drift.=0A>=C2=A0=0A>I heard a lot about porting= when I was initially investigating all this and I chose to use a medium st= reet port.=C2=A0 I let=C2=A0Mazdatrix do the work.=C2=A0 That being said, I= have read all but nothing on others porting their engines (other than a LO= T from PL on P ports).=C2=A0 Since standard porting does not reportedly eff= ect reliability, only, potentially low=C2=A0low idle (I can idle as low as = about 1300 rpm when warm smoothly) why is it not discussed and/or utilized = more?=0A>=C2=A0=0A>Just curious guys/gals.=C2=A0 Discuss =0A>=C2=A0=0A>A= ll the best,=0A>=C2=A0=0A>Chris Barber=0A>Houston, GSOT=0A>=0A_____________= ___________________=0A=0A>From:Rotary motors in aircraft [flyrotary@lancair= online.net] on behalf of Ed Anderson [eanderson@carolina.rr.com]=0A>Sent: W= ednesday, May 26, 2010 5:15 PM=0A>To: Rotary motors in aircraft=0A>Subject:= [FlyRotary] Re: Emailing: 3 view w-10 003, first flight=0A>Always loved th= e lines of a Tailwind =E2=80=93 in fact, I have the plans and license to bu= ild a W-10 sitting on my book shelf.=C2=A0 Unfortunately, I doubt I=E2=80= =99ll ever get around to it.=0A>=C2=A0=0A>Ok with thermostat in the system = holding it at 190F =E2=80=93 we really won=E2=80=99t know how much reserve = capacity you have in your cooling system until the power goes up.=0A>=C2=A0= =0A>I agree with George, 200HP out of an N/A 13B is really pushing it.=C2= =A0 I think 180HP is a more realistic expectation =E2=80=93 but, hey you ne= ver know.=C2=A0 It amazing how power goes up when things come together.=0A>= =C2=A0=0A>Enjoy and fly safe. =0A>Ed Anderson=0A>Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powere= d=0A>Matthews, NC=0A>eanderson@carolina.rr.com=0A>http://www.andersonee.com= =0A>http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html=0A>http://www.flyrotary.com/=0A>h= ttp://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW=0A>http://www.rota= ryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm=0A>=0A________________________________= =0A=0A>From:Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] = On Behalf Of John=0A>Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 2:36 PM=0A>To: Rotary mo= tors in aircraft=0A>Subject: [FlyRotary] Emailing: 3 view w-10 003, first f= light=0A>=C2=A0=0A>My most humble thank you to flyrotary and all you fine f= olks that have=C2=A0helped bring=C2=A0my project to flight.=C2=A0 Ed and ma= ny others whom I won't try to name here because I would miss many.=C2=A0 Th= e plane is a Wittman Tailwind W-10, empty wt. is 981 and it is a tri-gear,= =C2=A0 Wt. is within 6 #'s of similar trikes w/ 0-320 engines.=C2=A0 I have= the thermostat in the engine because most of the year it is not very hot, = if we get 50 days with the temperature over 70, we have had a hot summer, n= ot a lot of beach bunny activity.=C2=A0 7-1 I'll be 74 and have realized my= dream, now it's all gravy.=C2=A0 Again, thanks guys!!=C2=A0 JohnD=0A>Your = message is ready to be sent with the following file or link attachments:=0A= >3 view w-10 003=0A=0A--=0A=0AHomepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/=0A=0AArc= hive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.htm= l --0-1773195234-1274970511=:31414 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
=0A
John ,
=0A
   &n= bsp;  What is your "IVO" diameter, number of blades and are = your blades the 30 to 90 or 45 to105 degree pitch ? If I
=0A
remem= ber correctly you have the 2.17 to 1 RD1B gearbox.................&nbs= p;
 
Kelly Troyer
"Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine
"RWS"_R= D1C/EC2/EM2
"Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold =0A

=0A

=0A
=0A
=0AFrom: John Slade <jslade@canar= daviation.com>
To: Ro= tary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Thu, May 27, 2010 8:44:43 AM
<= B>Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Rot= ary HP reviisted....now that I know more about it all...kinda.
Hi Ed, Chris,
That all makes sense, but I can add something from expe= rience with the IVO prop - The minimum pitch setting seems to optimum for t= ake-off power. When I changed from a big fixed pitch prop to an IVO at mini= mum pitch the difference in acceleration was very marked. I have never take= n off with the pitch at a higher setting than minimum, so I can't attest to= the effect, but if you forget to put the pitch on full fine on the downwin= d, a go-around is much less doable.

Something else about the IVO that might help, Chris, is that when you throttle back on final the ai= rplane will want to slow down quite quickly. This is somewhat unexpected if= you're used to a fixed pitch prop that tends to make the airplane float on= final. The combination of fine pitch at idle, both rudders and the landing= brake make a Cozy (or Velocity I would think) come down like an elevator. =

One way to check that you have enough power would be to measure how= much runway you use to reach, say, 70kts. If it's more than 2000' I'd say = you're under powered. With a turbo and an IVO the acceleration should feel = like a good sports car, and the increase from 70 kts to flying speed will o= nly take a few seconds.
My 2c.
John

to Ed Anderson wrote: =0A<= BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">=0A=0A=0A
=0A

No easy answer =E2=80=93 to all the nuance= s of producing power, Chris.

=0A

 

=0A

= 200 HP is a possibility depending on lots of= factors (like your total induction system set up, however, I believe that = 180 HP is more in line with the likely maximum on the older 13B.  The = Renesis a bit more/

=0A

 

=0A

Fuel flow is as much an indication of power as anythin= g short of a dyno and/or extensive aircraft performance numbers.

=0A

 

=0A

 RP= M (in my opinion)  has too many variables =E2=80=93 like I have a 74x8= 8 prop with a 2.85:1 gearbox  and can turn 6000-6200 rpm static =E2=80= =93 does that mean I am making more or less HP than you at 6200 rpm at 35= =E2=80=9D Hg.  It all depends on what prop load each of our engines ar= e seeing at that rpm.  Generally as a rough rule of thumb you can figure 10 hp per gallon/hour of= fuel flow.  So it you have a fuel flow of 16 gallon/hour then your en= gine could be producing around 160 HP.  18 GPH =3D 180 HP, etc.  = Now your power won=E2=80=99t be more than that, but it could be less. = The rotary can flow considerably more fuel without making useful power tha= n a piston engine, but it is a useful rule of thumb.

=0A 

= =0A

I street ported my 9= 1 Turbo block myself using a Mazdatrix street port template.  I went t= hrough 5 intake designs and several muffler experiments before finding one = that appear to give me the power I wanted.  On a cold morning with OAT= < 50F, I can get up to 6200 rpm and 18-20 GPH fuel flow with the 74x88 = prop.  So I feel I have my set up just about as good as its going to g= et =E2=80=93 short of a forced induction system.

=0A

 

=0AWith your prop set at max=  fine pitch, you have reduced the prop load on your engine to a minim= um =E2=80=93 that permits your rpm to be at a maximum =E2=80=93 but, that d= oes NOT mean you are produc= ing the power and more importantly - the thrust needed for safe flight.

=0A

 

=0A

 Don=E2=80=99t be misl= ead by rpm.  As an extreme example to make my point, Without a prop (almost no load) my engine wi= ll turn 5500 rpm at idle throttle setting =E2=80=93 but I am only flowing s= omething like 1.5 =E2=80=93 2 GPH which means producing something like 15-2= 0 HP even though the rpm without prop is higher than my static was when I h= ad my old 68x72 with a 2.17:1 gear box.   So even though the rpm = is the same or slightly greater, the engine not making any where near the&n= bsp; 150-160 HP I made with the prop on at the same rpm.  Fuel flow is= not a perfect indicator but much more useful than RPM alone in estimating = your power particularly with a variable pitch prop.

=0A

 

= =0A

This is important, C= hris.  Years ago, there was a long EZ builder who had a non-rotary aut= o engine who unfortunately ended his first flight in a fatal crash into a c= actus plant.  He understood the electronics just fine, but did not und= erstand the relationship between rpm and thrust.  He set his adjustabl= e pitch prop for maximum RPM =E2=80=93 which mean minimum prop lo= ad, which in his case mean = minimum thrust.  He managed to get airborne with this limit= ed thrust, but could not apparently climb out of ground effect with the fli= ght ending on impact with a cactus.

=0A

 

=0A

 For example, you would get your= highest rpm with a prop that absolutely no pitch which would produce minim= um load on the engine =E2=80=93 however, I think you would agree there woul= d not be much =E2=80=9Cpush/Pull=E2=80=9D by such a prop set up.  With= a variable pitch prop, you need to find the optimum balance between rpm an= d thrust.  Too much rpm could indicate too little pitch (and too littl= e thrust), too low rpm could indicate too much pitch (and too little thrust= ) =E2=80=93 neither condition gives you maximum thrust. 

=0A

 

=0A

<= SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">The only wa= y I can think of to find that optimum balance between rpm and thrust is to = attach your airframe through a scale to an anchor.  Then measure the p= ull on the scale at various rpm and prop pitch settings.  This should = help you find where combination of engine rpm and prop pitch provides maxim= um thrust (at least maximum static thrust =E2=80=93 which is a good start).=   Perhaps someone else can offer a better and easier method.  Yes= , you should be able to get a feel during taxi test =E2=80=93 although some= folks frown on the idea of high-speed taxi test.  Theoretically you c= ould use an accelerometer, some accurate speed measurements the weight of&n= bsp; your aircraft and calculate the effective HP =E2=80=93 that has been d= one with automobiles.

=0A

 

=0A

In cases were folks are using fixed pitch props&nbs= p; with parameters similar to those used by others, you can make a comparis= on and get a rough feel for engine performance based on RPM.  Unfortun= ately, with a variable pitch prop making such comparisons is more difficult= and questionable.  Now if you can find someone using the same variabl= e pitch prop you are using and compare your rpm and prop settings, that is = certainly something worth checking into.

=0A

 

=0A

Just continue to ask these kind= s of questions and to think about the issues in producing power and thrust = =E2=80=93 you=E2=80=99ll be ready.

=0A

 

=0A

Ed

=0A

 

=0A

. 

=0A

 

=0A=0A

Ed Anderson=

=0A

Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powe= red

=0A

Matthew= s, NC

=0A

e= anderson@carolina.rr.com

=0A

http://www.andersonee.com

= =0A

http://www.dmack= .net/mazda/index.html

=0A

http://www.flyrotary.com/

=0A

<= A href=3D"http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm" rel=3Dnofollo= w target=3D_blank>http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/co= nfigs.htm#N494BW

=0A

http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm

=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Chris Barber
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 9:51 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Rotary HP reviiste= d....now that I know more about it all...kinda.

=0A<= P class=3DMsoNormal> 

=0A
=0A
=0A

I know this must have been discuss= ed, but perhaps more in passing or in some of Tracy 's literature (now = ;kinda dated, especially with some of the strides he continues to make), bu= t what is the conventional wisdom as to rotary horsepower?  I know whe= n I first started looking into it, oh many years ago, it seemed the impress= ion I got was that you could pretty easily achieve 200 hp, however, that is= now a bit lower.  Some of the tricks to get the higher HP was mild an= d medium porting, bridge, "J" and "P" porting.  Then there was the opt= ion of turbo...the one, in combination with a medium street port, I chose.<= /SPAN>

=0A
=0A

 

=0A
=0A

What say Ye?

= =0A
=0A

=  

=0A
=0A

When started today, mine was turning about 6200 rpm at 35 MP = (with a 3 lb spring in the wastegate).....it surged forward against the cho= cks and breaks.  IVO prop full fine. Nice feel of power even if i= t likes to heat up fast in 90 degree weather like this.

=0A
=0A

&nbs= p;

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Also, I think this was discussed before too, when I go&nb= sp;WOT my engine develops up to about 6250 rpm, but then drops a coupl= e/few hundred rpm to usually just under 6000....sometimes just above. = Thoughts?  Ed, (perhaps Al)it seems you may have chimed in before.&nb= sp; Regrettably, when I search the archives I tend to get frustrated d= ue to thread drift.

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I heard a lot ab= out porting when I was initially investigating all this and I chose to use = a medium street port.  I let Mazdatrix do the work.  That be= ing said, I have read all but nothing on others porting their engines (othe= r than a LOT from PL on P ports).  Since standard porting does not rep= ortedly effect reliability, only, potentially low low idle (I can idle= as low as about 1300 rpm when warm smoothly) why is it not discussed and/o= r utilized more?

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=0AJust curious guys/g= als.  Discuss <g>

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= All the = best,

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Chris Barber

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Hous= ton, GSOT

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<= B>From:= Rotary motors in aircraft [= flyrotary@lancaironline.net] on behalf of Ed Anderson [eanderson@ca= rolina.rr.com]
Sent:= Wednesday, May 26, 2010 5:15 PM
To= : Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Emailing: 3 view w-10 003, first flight

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Always loved the lines of a Tailwind =E2=80=93 in= fact, I have the plans and license to build a W-10 sitting on my book shel= f.  Unfortunately, I doubt I=E2=80=99ll ever get around to it.<= /FONT>

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Ok with thermostat i= n the system holding it at 190F =E2=80=93 we really won=E2=80=99t know how = much reserve capacity you have in your cooling system until the power goes = up.

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I agree with = George, 200HP out of an N/A 13B is really pushing it.  I think 180HP i= s a more realistic expectation =E2=80=93 but, hey you never know.  It = amazing how power goes up when things come together.

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Enjoy and fly safe.

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From:= Rotary motors in aircraft [<= A class=3Dmoz-txt-link-freetext href=3D"mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net"= rel=3Dnofollow target=3D_blank ymailto=3D"mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.n= et">mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of John
= Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 2:36 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Emailing: 3 view w-10 0= 03, first flight

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My most humble thank you to flyrotary and all you fine folk= s that have helped bring my project to flight.  Ed and many = others whom I won't try to name here because I would miss many.  The p= lane is a Wittman Tailwind W-10, empty wt. is 981 and it is a tri-gear,&nbs= p; Wt. is within 6 #'s of similar trikes w/ 0-320 engines.  I have the= thermostat in the engine because most of the year it is not very hot, if w= e get 50 days with the temperature over 70, we have had a hot summer, not a= lot of beach bunny activity.  7-1 I'll be 74 and have realized my dre= am, now it's all gravy.  Again, thanks guys!!  JohnD

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Your message is ready to be sent with the following file or link attach= ments:
3 view w-10 003


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