X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com ([75.180.132.121] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.7) with ESMTP id 4323076 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sat, 22 May 2010 20:47:13 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=75.180.132.121; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Return-Path: X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=+ekMi77mZ5GklOGOY/oEe0KM76mYTylHWjxFepbNIe4= c=1 sm=0 a=mI6YO6ZdSLUA:10 a=Er6hwA6a1l4K/FyzC6NN7w==:17 a=ayC55rCoAAAA:8 a=arxwEM4EAAAA:8 a=QdXCYpuVAAAA:8 a=7g1VtSJxAAAA:8 a=ekHE3smAAAAA:20 a=UretUmmEAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=HZJGGiqLAAAA:8 a=pcLIrrrKAAAA:8 a=vnjh1Sd0FPxdLJp4YKQA:9 a=Vy6Cg1JSnJVosd4l2mYA:7 a=1awdEoWob3Mlhwd4GeekYOrLzccA:4 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=1vhyWl4Y8LcA:10 a=EzXvWhQp4_cA:10 a=HeoGohOdMD0A:10 a=ftFGBYpk1mUA:10 a=fuq82NQRRouPoSnR:21 a=OvYMt8F6ZQAQNwDi:21 a=SSmOFEACAAAA:8 a=uhThBnTf3zQULkYgygcA:9 a=03LwH2bvkxEJ1dzimrUA:7 a=ob7ikB8MVIy0R5vwpLdUZa7kJ7IA:4 a=TKUDjVNCrDuto1rV:21 a=NH5Tilvy7R68H-0L:21 a=Er6hwA6a1l4K/FyzC6NN7w==:117 X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 X-Originating-IP: 75.181.123.159 Received: from [75.181.123.159] ([75.181.123.159:1461] helo=computername) by cdptpa-oedge02.mail.rr.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.2.39 r()) with ESMTP id 1D/96-19173-6EA78FB4; Sun, 23 May 2010 00:46:37 +0000 From: "Ed Anderson" Message-ID: <1D.96.19173.6EA78FB4@cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com> To: "'Rotary motors in aircraft'" Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: injectors Date: Sat, 22 May 2010 20:46:08 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0013_01CAF9EF.CE4F8BA0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5931 In-Reply-To: Thread-Index: Acr6EI8OAVWKwRSLT+eQk6nktFCbqwAACOFg This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01CAF9EF.CE4F8BA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gee, Steve and Kelly - if I had know we were all going to suggest the same thing, I could have save myself the effort {:>). But, it is frequently the case that a problem may appear to be associated with one system and the problem actually lie with a different system. I remember on my last glide into Selma, AL from 7 miles out - thinking I had a fuel problem because the injectors did not appear to be injecting fuel properly. Well, it was a fuel problem but it was due to my (unnoticed) failing electrical system which was down to such a low voltage the EC2 could not operate the injectors properly. Long story and won't repeat it here - but indicates that 'fixation" on what you believe may be the problem subsystem may blind you to the actual source of the problem. Ed Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson@carolina.rr.com http://www.andersonee.com http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html http://www.flyrotary.com/ http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm _____ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Steven W. Boese Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2010 8:39 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: injectors John, If you can hear each injector click, then it is unlikely that one of them is hanging. This is particularly likely if the sound has a slight ring to it. A questionable injector may sound like more of a dull thump. I second Kelly's suggestion. If you haven't already done this, can you shut off the fuel supply to the carburator with the injectors disabled and wait until the engine dies of fuel starvation? Then try starting the engine with the fuel supply only enabled to the injectors and not the carburator. Steve Boese RV6A, 1986 13B NA, RD1A, EC2 _____ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Kelly Troyer [keltro@att.net] Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2010 6:09 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: injectors John, This may be a stretch but could you be pulling residual fuel from the Weber float bowl when starting on the injectors causing the flooding ??............. Kelly Troyer "Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 "Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold _____ From: John To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Sat, May 22, 2010 4:31:10 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] injectors Well I spent the afternoon testing the computer system and after checking the grounds and the power to the injectors, I ran the engine up to 180 degrees, stopped for a glass of tea and went back out to the shed and started the engine, flooding, pulled the fuse quick so as to not flood the engine. I have the upgrade's so I clipped the stethoscope to each injector and ran the test mode for the injectors and each on was clicking, so I tried a restart with the fuse pulled and the engine started. I unplugged all the injectors and the engine started, so I guess the new set isn't working any better than the rebuilds I bought from Bruce T. Is there a way to test those injectors to tell which may be hanging open. I have two cycle oil and MM oil in the fuel, so every thing should be well lubed, I did this when I was having a condition with the rotor lube pump. I think I'll go out this evening after it cools down and see if will still run with the injectors unplugged. I'll have to wait till Tracy gets home to find out if it's Okay to run with the Weber with the fuel side of the computer turned off. JohnD....Thank you for your help! ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01CAF9EF.CE4F8BA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Gee, Steve and Kelly – if I = had know we were all going to suggest the same thing, I could have save myself = the effort {:>).  But, it is frequently the case that a problem may = appear to be associated with one system and the problem actually lie with a different system.

 

 I remember on my last glide = into Selma, AL from 7 miles out – thinking I had a = fuel problem because the injectors did not appear to be injecting fuel = properly.  Well, it was a fuel problem but it was due to my (unnoticed) failing electrical = system which was down to such a low voltage the EC2 could not operate the = injectors properly.  Long story and won’t repeat it here – but = indicates that ‘fixation” on what you believe may be the problem subsystem = may blind you to the actual source of the = problem.

 

Ed

 

Ed Anderson

Rv-6A N494BW Rotary = Powered

Matthews, NC

eanderson@carolina.rr.com=

http://www.andersonee.com

http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html

http://www.flyrotary.com/

http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW

http://www.r= otaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm

From: = Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Steven W. Boese
Sent: Saturday, May 22, = 2010 8:39 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = injectors

 

John,

=

 

If you can hear each injector = click, then it is unlikely that one of them is hanging.  This is = particularly likely if the sound has a slight ring to it.  A questionable = injector may sound like more of a dull thump.

 

I second Kelly's = suggestion.  If you haven't already done this, can you shut off the fuel supply to the carburator with the injectors disabled and wait until the engine dies of = fuel starvation?  Then try starting the engine with the fuel supply only = enabled to the injectors and not the carburator.

 

Steve = Boese

RV6A, 1986 13B NA, RD1A, = EC2

 

From: = Rotary motors in aircraft [flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On = Behalf Of Kelly Troyer [keltro@att.net]
Sent: Saturday, May 22, = 2010 6:09 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = injectors

John,

=

    This may be a = stretch but could you be pulling residual fuel from the Weber float bowl = when starting on the injectors causing the = flooding ??............. 
 

Kelly Troyer
"Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold

 

 

From: John <downing.j@sbcglobal.net>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft = <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Sat, May 22, 2010 = 4:31:10 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] = injectors

Well I spent the afternoon testing = the computer system and after checking the grounds and the power to the = injectors, I ran the engine up to 180 degrees, stopped for a glass of tea and went = back out to the shed and started the engine, flooding, pulled the fuse = quick so as to not flood the engine.  I have the upgrade's so I clipped the stethoscope to each injector and ran the test mode for the injectors and = each on was clicking, so I tried a restart with the fuse pulled and the = engine started.  I unplugged all the injectors and the engine started, so = I guess the new set isn't working any better than the rebuilds I bought from = Bruce T.  Is there a way to test those injectors to tell which may be = hanging open.  I have two cycle oil and MM oil in the fuel, so every thing = should be well lubed, I did this when I was having a condition with the rotor = lube pump.  I think I'll go out this evening after it cools down and see = if will still run with the injectors unplugged.  I'll have to wait = till Tracy gets = home to find out if it's Okay to run with the Weber with the fuel side of the = computer turned off.  JohnD....Thank you for your help!

 

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