X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com ([75.180.132.122] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.7) with ESMTP id 4323065 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sat, 22 May 2010 20:39:05 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=75.180.132.122; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Return-Path: X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=+ekMi77mZ5GklOGOY/oEe0KM76mYTylHWjxFepbNIe4= c=1 sm=0 a=vhyiQjAzrQIA:10 a=UBIxAjGgU1YA:10 a=Er6hwA6a1l4K/FyzC6NN7w==:17 a=ayC55rCoAAAA:8 a=arxwEM4EAAAA:8 a=QdXCYpuVAAAA:8 a=7g1VtSJxAAAA:8 a=ekHE3smAAAAA:20 a=UretUmmEAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=1GvRTz2w643BHxUHARMA:9 a=eLublpg7Sv7HuZAx3gIA:7 a=FR7bzApBpB8UfNZr5hqfEMG0ID4A:4 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=1vhyWl4Y8LcA:10 a=EzXvWhQp4_cA:10 a=85GrQdqBmeUvbVsN:21 a=eYuePA8n3gyy7bri:21 a=SSmOFEACAAAA:8 a=lTvktF_TrPLE6kXnSU8A:9 a=JSO1lj3_4utz97TFiF8A:7 a=q5qLkvt_4aab7t2jOxWvnNEvJKMA:4 a=Z8XpErnNggMgLnNc:21 a=H5kQ9MHu1ZuzX7Nr:21 a=Er6hwA6a1l4K/FyzC6NN7w==:117 X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 X-Originating-IP: 75.181.123.159 Received: from [75.181.123.159] ([75.181.123.159:1459] helo=computername) by cdptpa-oedge02.mail.rr.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.2.39 r()) with ESMTP id CE/6D-19173-60978FB4; Sun, 23 May 2010 00:38:30 +0000 From: "Ed Anderson" Message-ID: To: "'Rotary motors in aircraft'" Subject: Webber + Injectors = Flooding???? : [FlyRotary] injectors Date: Sat, 22 May 2010 20:38:07 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0003_01CAF9EE.AFC7A5B0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5931 In-Reply-To: Thread-Index: Acr59ireWNN2bA2ZSBSjtGPvHTJZ7wAEwyEA This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01CAF9EE.AFC7A5B0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John, from your description, it doesn't sound like there is anything wrong with your injectors themselves. It sure sounds like to me there is something in your wiring that is causing the injector(s) to open up when you apply power (put the fuse in the circuit). If all the injectors are clicking when in diagnostic or test mode - then it's a strong indication that they are responding as they should. There is no way your injectors should be opening up when you apply power - NO way - unless there is a circuit providing a ground path for the injectors. That path should ONLY be provided by the EC2. Since the injectors are clicking properly when you are in the test mode - that would tend to indicate your EC2 is hooked up properly and the injectors are responding correctly. If the injectors were somehow otherwise grounded then the EC2 would probably not be able to activate the injectors. However, my question is are you doing the test mode with the injector power fuse installed or uninstalled? So what is different in your circuit when you are running the EC2 injector test mode and when you are not? Is there a relay somewhere that activates when you put the fuse in the circuit? Ok, for the moment, lets assume your EC2 system is functioning properly - the injector test would tend to indicate it is wired to the injectors properly - so lets (for the moment) look at other possible causes of flooding when the injectors are turned on. How about too much fuel due to fuel being pulled out of both the Webber system AND the injectors? I am assuming that when you have your injector system ON that you have the WEBBER Carburetor configured so it CAN NOT dispense fuel? Not certain of your set up, but if the fuel supply to the Webber is not somehow disabled and you also try to also use the injectors, you are likely going to be getting fuel from both the Webber and the Injector into the engine - surely flooding it. It would probably not be sufficient to simply turn off fuel to the Webber as it would likely still have fuel in its float bow - so starting the engine with the injectors would have fuel from both the injectors and Webber pouring into the engine and flooding it. Although if you started it up several times, it would likely deplete the fuel in the float bow with the fuel supply turned off.. IF you can temporarily remove and plug the fuel line to the Webber thereby taking it our of the fuel equation. Then fire up the engine to run all of the fuel out of the Webber's float bowl letting the engine die (or otherwise drain the Webber's bowl). Then with the Webber bowl likely empty (or at least somewhat depleted), then try running with only your injectors. It may take a try or two as probably all of the fuel won't be out of the Webber's float bow at low rpm and at higher rpm it may again pull some more fuel out of it. But, a couple of runs to as high an rpm as you can get before the engine dies - should deplete the fuel in the float bowl. Then try the injectors. The problem may not be with the Ec2 system - it may be with the combination of EC2 injectors and Webber both providing fuel to the engine resulting in flooding. It would really help if you had a wiring diagram of your EC2 system that you could post. Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson@carolina.rr.com http://www.andersonee.com http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html http://www.flyrotary.com/ http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm _____ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of John Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2010 5:31 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] injectors Well I spent the afternoon testing the computer system and after checking the grounds and the power to the injectors, I ran the engine up to 180 degrees, stopped for a glass of tea and went back out to the shed and started the engine, flooding, pulled the fuse quick so as to not flood the engine. I have the upgrade's so I clipped the stethoscope to each injector and ran the test mode for the injectors and each on was clicking, so I tried a restart with the fuse pulled and the engine started. I unplugged all the injectors and the engine started, so I guess the new set isn't working any better than the rebuilds I bought from Bruce T. Is there a way to test those injectors to tell which may be hanging open. I have two cycle oil and MM oil in the fuel, so every thing should be well lubed, I did this when I was having a condition with the rotor lube pump. I think I'll go out this evening after it cools down and see if will still run with the injectors unplugged. I'll have to wait till Tracy gets home to find out if it's Okay to run with the Weber with the fuel side of the computer turned off. JohnD....Thank you for your help! ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01CAF9EE.AFC7A5B0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

John, from your description, it = doesn’t sound like there is anything wrong with your injectors themselves.  = It sure sounds like to me there is something in your wiring that is causing = the injector(s) to open up when you apply power (put the fuse in the circuit).  If all the injectors are clicking when in diagnostic or = test mode – then it’s a strong indication that they are = responding as they should.

 

There is no way your injectors = should be opening up when you apply power – NO way – unless there is a circuit providing a ground path for the injectors. That path should ONLY = be provided by the EC2.    Since the injectors are clicking properly  when you are in the test mode – that would tend to = indicate your EC2 is hooked up properly and the injectors are responding = correctly.  If the injectors were somehow otherwise grounded then the EC2 would = probably not be able to activate the injectors.  However, my question is are = you doing the test mode with the injector power fuse installed or = uninstalled?

 

So what is different in your = circuit when you are running the EC2 injector test mode and when you are not?  = Is there a relay somewhere that activates when you put the fuse in the = circuit?

 

Ok, for the moment, lets assume = your EC2 system is functioning properly – the injector test would tend to = indicate it is wired to the injectors properly – so lets (for the moment) = look at other possible causes of flooding when the injectors are turned = on.

 

= How about too much fuel due to fuel being pulled out of both the Webber = system AND the injectors?

 

I am assuming that when you have = your injector system ON that you have the WEBBER Carburetor configured so it = CAN NOT dispense fuel?  Not = certain of your set up, but if the fuel supply to the Webber is not somehow = disabled and you also try to also use the injectors, you are likely going to be = getting fuel from both the Webber and the Injector into the engine - surely flooding it. 

 

It would probably not be sufficient = to simply turn off fuel to the Webber as it would likely still have fuel in = its float bow – so starting the engine with the injectors would have = fuel from both the injectors and Webber pouring into the engine and flooding = it.  Although if you started it up several times, it would likely deplete the = fuel in the float bow with the fuel supply turned = off..

 

IF you can temporarily remove and = plug the fuel line to the Webber thereby taking it our of the fuel = equation.    Then fire up the engine to run all of the fuel out of the Webber’s = float bowl  letting the engine die (or otherwise drain the Webber’s bowl).  Then = with the Webber bowl likely empty (or at least somewhat depleted), then try = running with only your injectors.  It may take a try or two as probably all = of the fuel won’t be out of the Webber’s float bow at low rpm and = at higher rpm it may again pull some more fuel out of it.  But, a = couple of runs to as high an rpm as you can get before the engine dies – = should deplete  the fuel in the float bowl.  Then try the = injectors.

 

The problem may not be with the Ec2 = system – it may be with the combination of EC2 injectors and Webber both providing fuel to the engine resulting in = flooding.

It would really help if you had a wiring = diagram of your EC2 system that you could post.

Ed Anderson

Rv-6A N494BW Rotary = Powered

Matthews, NC

eanderson@carolina.rr.com=

http://www.andersonee.com

http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html

http://www.flyrotary.com/

http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW

http://www.r= otaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm

From: = Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of John
Sent: Saturday, May 22, = 2010 5:31 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] = injectors

 

Well I spent the afternoon testing the computer = system and after checking the grounds and the power to the injectors, I ran the = engine up to 180 degrees, stopped for a glass of tea and went back out to the shed = and started the engine, flooding, pulled the fuse quick so as to not = flood the engine.  I have the upgrade's so I clipped the stethoscope to each injector and ran the test mode for the injectors and each on was = clicking, so I tried a restart with the fuse pulled and the engine started.  I = unplugged all the injectors and the engine started, so I guess the new set isn't = working any better than the rebuilds I bought from Bruce T.  Is there a way = to test those injectors to tell which may be hanging open.  I have two = cycle oil and MM oil in the fuel, so every thing should be well lubed, I did = this when I was having a condition with the rotor lube pump.  I think = I'll go out this evening after it cools down and see if will still run with the injectors unplugged.  I'll have to wait till Tracy gets home to find out if it's = Okay to run with the Weber with the fuel side of the computer turned off.  JohnD....Thank you for your help!

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