X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail-iw0-f173.google.com ([209.85.223.173] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.5) with ESMTP id 4217176 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sat, 10 Apr 2010 21:38:49 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.223.173; envelope-from=msteitle@gmail.com Received: by iwn3 with SMTP id 3so2472560iwn.3 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 2010 18:38:13 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:received:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=w+aCHqphELjwF7nNP6uu6ETaG8TbIXORnkD12WeJ0SY=; b=ZUqi3SmKpLBzk1uOSA665XVbFHSBBRQxViSTD4Xf3Lj2ja18xcHMFGnE6zFurnjNbI bws5f8+zHOdDjGrbMoE3NmtKKspokDo1fD3QfkH9trk77UkXFuOx6mTA+e5FgZfxGgVV MfNVqReStcptyRq8vk/V+5NutU55IleIPJsTY= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=H3u2LLRMTfu3TrORVp40YgwcNsj8VztcnzyJeX01nqOomRYrpTNNTlT9tnULEix4HL FLZg6ARFDwTGphW71I6VHAKOjz/QIGxbw012G+vdm7qWlM4Wyrdc/9IKhXP7AptjnahJ VJOFMVNhMaaLzUvcC3ilSEdMmCykUYVylEAcU= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.231.183.195 with HTTP; Sat, 10 Apr 2010 18:38:13 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2010 20:38:13 -0500 Received: by 10.231.170.143 with SMTP id d15mr988692ibz.13.1270949893164; Sat, 10 Apr 2010 18:38:13 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] P-port Sealing From: Mark Steitle To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=005045029be9e8d0990483ec14e5 --005045029be9e8d0990483ec14e5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kelly, My sealing plates & p-port tubes are sealing now, but there were a couple o= f small leaks around the small bolts. There are four on each plate, two of which go into the water jacket. Mine plates don't have the o-rings because I already had them installed and pressure tested to 50 psi when PL came up that fix. Mine are sealed with Ultra Grey. I cured the leaks around the small bolts by chamfering the hole nearest the bolt head and installing an o-ring around the bolt. Keep in mind that these were very slight leaks. N= o leaks into the combustion chambers. Mark S. On Sat, Apr 10, 2010 at 1:25 PM, Kelly Troyer wrote: > Mark, > Just ordered the P-port sealing plates from Paul L.............Curious > if you > had your plates grooved for an O-ring and how well your plates are sealin= g > at this time ??................. > -- > Kelly Troyer > "Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine > "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 > "Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold > > > > > > -------------- Original message from "Kelly Troyer" : > -------------- > > Mark, > > Photos for the less talented of us !!..... After getting your bird back i= n > the air of course.................<:) > > Thanks, > -- > Kelly Troyer > "Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine > "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 > "Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold > > -------------- Original message from Mark Steitle : > -------------- > > Tracy, > > Anyone with a table saw, drill press, and a TIG can build a slide throttl= e. > Of course, it will probably turn out better if you use a Bridgeport mill= , > but if you're careful, it can be built at home by the normal builder. Af= ter > building a 6-runner side-port manifold, building the slide-throttle intak= e > was a piece of cake. > > Is it necessary? I don't know because I never tried running it with a > regular throttle body. But if a regular throttle body would work for our > purposes, the intake could be even simpler. PL sells slide-throttle kits > for the 2-rotor. How much simpler could it be than that? > > I just pleased with how my intat all fits together as a system. > > Mark > > > On Fri, Apr 9, 2010 at 9:03 PM, Tracy Crook wro= te: > >> "*One nice thing about the p-port motor is that the intake is super >> simple make. Of course, you've got to build a slide throttle. ;-) " >> * >> Just curious Mark, are you just kidding or do you really think the slide >> throttle is a necessity? When and if I ever build a P-Port engine I'l= l >> use a standard throttle body. I don't see a significant advantage to th= e >> slide throttle. It's still too far away from the inner port entrance to = help >> the idle. With a conservative port timing the idle is OK for aircraft u= se >> anyway. Richard's P Port idled OK using a carburetor and it was a one >> rotor which has a even harder time at idle. >> >> Tracy >> >> >> On Fri, Apr 9, 2010 at 8:31 PM, Mark Steitle wrote: >> >>> Bill, >>> >>> One nice thing about the p-port motor is that the intake is super simpl= e >>> make. Of course, you've got to build a slide throttle. ;-) >>> >>> Mark >>> >>> On Fri, Apr 9, 2010 at 12:36 PM, Al Gietzen wrote: >>> >>>> My understanding is that one advantage to using individual throttles >>>> as you did was that it mitigated the effect of pulses between the inta= kes >>>> and tuning became less critical. >>>> >>>> Where did you get the tubes to weld-up? I=92m planning on making a >>>> casting myself but it would nice to know alternate sources. >>>> >>>> Bill; >>>> >>>> I don=92t recall where I got the tube =96 there are a number of vendor= s. I >>>> think I bought U-bends which were then cut and welded. The tube size w= as >>>> chosen to have a circumference close to match that of the ports. The >>>> fabricator then made mandrels to shape the tubes to match the ports = =96 then >>>> welded into the water-jet cut flange. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Al >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> *From:* Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] >>>> *On Behalf Of *Al Gietzen >>>> *Sent:* Thursday, April 01, 2010 5:06 PM >>>> *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft >>>> *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Tuned lengths >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft >>>> *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Tuned lengths >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> *Please post drawings/photos/specs...Yvon* >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Some photos of the intake manifold for the 20B are attached. It is 4.5= =94 >>>> from flange to flange; the TB flange is at a slight angle to fit my >>>> installation; the TB is TWM 3003; 44mm diameter bores. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Another builder built his from my drawings and had a couple extra made= . >>>> At least one is still available. The price is around $1000; I=92ll hav= e to >>>> check. That=E2=80=99s a real deal =96 by the time I had mine fabricate= d and heat >>>> treated it was over $2000. Let me know if anyone is interested. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Al >>>> >>>> >>> >> > --005045029be9e8d0990483ec14e5 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kelly,=A0

My sealing plates & p-port tubes are seali= ng now, but there were a couple of small leaks around the small bolts. =A0T= here are four on each plate, two of which go into the water jacket. =A0Mine= plates don't have the o-rings because I already had them installed and= pressure tested to 50 psi when PL came up that fix. =A0Mine are sealed wit= h Ultra Grey. =A0I cured the leaks around the small bolts by chamfering the= hole nearest the bolt head and installing an o-ring around the bolt. =A0Ke= ep in mind that these were very slight leaks. =A0No leaks into the combusti= on chambers. =A0

Mark S. =A0

On Sat, A= pr 10, 2010 at 1:25 PM, Kelly Troyer <keltro@att.net> wrote:
Mark,
=A0=A0 Just ordered the P-port sealing plates from Paul L.............= Curious if you
had your plates grooved for an O-ring and how well your plates are sea= ling
at this time ??.................
--
Kelly Troyer
"Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine
&q= uot;RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold <= br>


=A0
-------------- Original message from "Kelly Troyer" <= ;keltro@att.net>= : --------------

Mark,
=A0
Photos for the less talented of us !!..... After getting your bird bac= k in the air of course.................<:)
=A0
Thanks,
--
Kelly Troyer
"Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine
&q= uot;RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold <= br>
-------------- Original message from Mark Steitle <msteitle@gmail.com>: --= ------------

Tracy,=A0=20

Anyone with a table saw, drill press, and a TIG can build a slide thro= ttle. =A0Of course, it will probably turn out better if you use a Bridgepor= t mill, but if you're careful, it can be built at home by the normal bu= ilder. =A0After building a 6-runner side-port manifold, building the slide-= throttle intake was a piece of cake.

Is it necessary? =A0I don't know because I never tried running it = with a regular throttle body. =A0But if a regular throttle body would work = for our purposes, the intake could be even simpler. =A0PL sells slide-throt= tle kits for the 2-rotor. =A0How much simpler could it be than that?=A0

I just pleased with how my intat all fits together as a system.=A0

Mark=A0


On Fri, Apr 9, 2010 at 9:03 PM, Tracy Crook <tracy@rotaryaviation.com> wrote:
"One nice thing about the p-p= ort motor is that the intake is super simple make. =A0Of course, you've= got to build a slide throttle. =A0;-) "

Just curious Mark, are you just kidding or do you really think the = slide throttle is a necessity? =A0=A0 When and if I ever build a P-Port eng= ine I'll use a standard throttle body.=A0 I don't see a significant= advantage to the slide throttle. It's still too far away from the inne= r port entrance to help the idle.=A0 With a conservative port timing the id= le is OK for aircraft use anyway.=A0 Richard's=A0 P Port idled OK using= a carburetor and it was a one rotor which has a even harder time at idle.<= br>
Tracy


On Fri, Apr 9, 2010 at 8:31 PM, Mark Steitle <= msteitle@gmail.com> wrote:
Bill,=A0=20

One nice thing about the p-port motor is that the intake is super simp= le make. =A0Of course, you've got to build a slide throttle. =A0;-)=A0<= /div>

Mark

On Fri, Apr 9, 2010 at 12:36 PM, Al Gietzen <A= LVentures@cox.net> wrote:

My understanding is that one advantage to using in= dividual throttles as you did was that it mitigated the effect of pulses be= tween the intakes and tuning became less critical.

Where did you get the tubes to weld-up?=A0 I=92m p= lanning on making a casting myself but it would nice to know alternate sour= ces.

Bill;

I don=92t recall= where I got the tube =96 there are a number of vendors.=A0 I think I bough= t U-bends which were then cut and welded. The tube size was chosen to have = a circumference close to match that of the ports.=A0 The fabricator then ma= de mandrels to shape the tubes to match the ports =96 then welded into the = water-jet cut flange.

= =A0

Al=

=A0

=A0

=A0

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lanca= ironline.net] On Behalf Of <= /b>Al Gietzen
Sent: = Thursday, April 01, 2010 5:06 P= M
To: Rotary motors in aircraf= t
Subject: [FlyRotary] Tu= ned lengths

=A0

To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Tun= ed lengths

=A0

Please post drawings/photos/specs...Yvon

=A0

Some photos of the intake manifold for the 20B are attached. It= is 4.5=94 from flange to flange; the TB flange is at a slight angle to fit= my installation; the TB is TWM 3003; 44mm diameter bores.

=A0

Another builder built his from my drawings and had a couple ext= ra made.=A0 At least one is still available. The price is around $1000; I= =92ll have to check. That=E2=80=99s a real deal =96 by the time I had mine = fabricated and heat treated it was over $2000.=A0 Let me know if anyone is = interested.

=A0

Al





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