X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from fmailhost01.isp.att.net ([207.115.11.51] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.5) with ESMTP id 4216934 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sat, 10 Apr 2010 14:26:23 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=207.115.11.51; envelope-from=keltro@att.net DKIM-Signature: v=1; q=dns/txt; d=att.net; s=dkim01; i=keltro@att.net; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1270923984; h=Content-Type: MIME-Version:In-Reply-To:Message-Id:Date:Subject:To:From; bh=ncBH43 ZAtTux9ApdV6yHdJEKO/rFy91CBfbWOk8iMqo=; b=F9ZHLj49h1ZLKdXDJJcNHXLHs quxWY/ZOg+yVZzBzx7HHSx6U1wYOnYnFSMwDS0pmayplLVkdb0sy4wrx1i3bg== Received: from fwebmail05.isp.att.net ([204.127.218.105]) by isp.att.net (frfwmhc01) with SMTP id <20100410182548H0100t2i1ce>; Sat, 10 Apr 2010 18:25:48 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [204.127.218.105] Received: from [208.114.44.175] by fwebmail05.isp.att.net; Sat, 10 Apr 2010 18:25:47 +0000 From: "Kelly Troyer" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Subject: P-port Sealing Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2010 18:25:47 +0000 Message-Id: <041020101825.4389.4BC0C2AB00052F480000112522230682229B0A02D29B9B0EBF019D9B040A05@att.net> In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Mar 2 2009) X-Authenticated-Sender: a2VsdHJvQGF0dC5uZXQ= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_4389_1270923947_0" --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_4389_1270923947_0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mark, Just ordered the P-port sealing plates from Paul L.............Curious i= f you had your plates grooved for an O-ring and how well your plates are sealing at this time ??................. -- Kelly Troyer=20 "Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine=20 "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2=20 "Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold=20 -------------- Original message from "Kelly Troyer" : -----= ---------=20 Mark, Photos for the less talented of us !!..... After getting your bird back in = the air of course.................<:) Thanks, -- Kelly Troyer=20 "Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine=20 "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2=20 "Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold=20 -------------- Original message from Mark Steitle : ---= -----------=20 Tracy,=20=20 Anyone with a table saw, drill press, and a TIG can build a slide throttle.= Of course, it will probably turn out better if you use a Bridgeport mill,= but if you're careful, it can be built at home by the normal builder. Aft= er building a 6-runner side-port manifold, building the slide-throttle inta= ke was a piece of cake. Is it necessary? I don't know because I never tried running it with a regu= lar throttle body. But if a regular throttle body would work for our purpo= ses, the intake could be even simpler. PL sells slide-throttle kits for th= e 2-rotor. How much simpler could it be than that?=20 I just pleased with how my intat all fits together as a system.=20 Mark=20 On Fri, Apr 9, 2010 at 9:03 PM, Tracy Crook wrot= e: "One nice thing about the p-port motor is that the intake is super simple m= ake. Of course, you've got to build a slide throttle. ;-) " Just curious Mark, are you just kidding or do you really think the slide th= rottle is a necessity? When and if I ever build a P-Port engine I'll use= a standard throttle body. I don't see a significant advantage to the slid= e throttle. It's still too far away from the inner port entrance to help th= e idle. With a conservative port timing the idle is OK for aircraft use an= yway. Richard's P Port idled OK using a carburetor and it was a one rotor= which has a even harder time at idle. Tracy=20 On Fri, Apr 9, 2010 at 8:31 PM, Mark Steitle wrote: Bill,=20=20 One nice thing about the p-port motor is that the intake is super simple ma= ke. Of course, you've got to build a slide throttle. ;-)=20 Mark On Fri, Apr 9, 2010 at 12:36 PM, Al Gietzen wrote: My understanding is that one advantage to using individual throttles as you= did was that it mitigated the effect of pulses between the intakes and tun= ing became less critical.=20 Where did you get the tubes to weld-up? I=E2=80=99m planning on making a c= asting myself but it would nice to know alternate sources. Bill; I don=E2=80=99t recall where I got the tube =E2=80=93 there are a number of= vendors. I think I bought U-bends which were then cut and welded. The tub= e size was chosen to have a circumference close to match that of the ports.= The fabricator then made mandrels to shape the tubes to match the ports = =E2=80=93 then welded into the water-jet cut flange. Al From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Beh= alf Of Al Gietzen Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2010 5:06 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Tuned lengths To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Tuned lengths Please post drawings/photos/specs...Yvon Some photos of the intake manifold for the 20B are attached. It is 4.5=E2= =80=9D from flange to flange; the TB flange is at a slight angle to fit my = installation; the TB is TWM 3003; 44mm diameter bores. Another builder built his from my drawings and had a couple extra made. At= least one is still available. The price is around $1000; I=E2=80=99ll have= to check. That=C3=A2=E2=82=AC=E2=84=A2s a real deal =E2=80=93 by the time = I had mine fabricated and heat treated it was over $2000. Let me know if a= nyone is interested. Al --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_4389_1270923947_0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_4389_1270923947_1" --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_4389_1270923947_1 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Mark,
   Just ordered the P-port sealing plates from Paul L.......= ......Curious if you
had your plates grooved for an O-ring and how well your plates are sea= ling
at this time ??.................
--
Kelly Troyer
"Dyke Delta"_1= 3B ROTARY Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifol= d



 
-------------- Original message from "Kelly Troyer" <kelt= ro@att.net>: --------------

Mark,
 
Photos for the less talented of us !!..... After getting your bird bac= k in the air of course.................<:)
 
Thanks,
--
Kelly Troyer
"Dyke Delta"_1= 3B ROTARY Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifol= d
-------------- Original message from Mark Steitle <msteit= le@gmail.com>: --------------

Tracy, =20

Anyone with a table saw, drill press, and a TIG can build a slide thro= ttle.  Of course, it will probably turn out better if you use a Bridge= port mill, but if you're careful, it can be built at home by the normal bui= lder.  After building a 6-runner side-port manifold, building the slid= e-throttle intake was a piece of cake.

Is it necessary?  I don't know because I never tried running it w= ith a regular throttle body.  But if a regular throttle body would wor= k for our purposes, the intake could be even simpler.  PL sells slide-= throttle kits for the 2-rotor.  How much simpler could it be than that= ? 

I just pleased with how my intat all fits together as a system. <= /DIV>

Mark 


On Fri, Apr 9, 2010 at 9:03 PM, Tracy Crook <t= racy@rotaryaviation.com> wrote:
"One nice thing about the p-por= t motor is that the intake is super simple make.  Of course, you've go= t to build a slide throttle.  ;-) "

Just curious Mark, are = you just kidding or do you really think the slide throttle is a necessity? =    When and if I ever build a P-Port engine I'll use a standard t= hrottle body.  I don't see a significant advantage to the slide thrott= le. It's still too far away from the inner port entrance to help the idle.&= nbsp; With a conservative port timing the idle is OK for aircraft use anywa= y.  Richard's  P Port idled OK using a carburetor and it was a on= e rotor which has a even harder time at idle.

Tracy


On Fri, Apr 9, 2010 at 8:31 PM, Mark Steitle <msteit= le@gmail.com> wrote:
Bill, =20

One nice thing about the p-port motor is that the intake is super simp= le make.  Of course, you've got to build a slide throttle.  ;-)&n= bsp;

Mark

On Fri, Apr 9, 2010 at 12:36 PM, Al Gietzen <ALVentu= res@cox.net> wrote:

My understanding is that one advantage to using indi= vidual throttles as you did was that it mitigated the effect of pulses betw= een the intakes and tuning became less critical.

Where did you get the tubes to weld-up?  I=E2= =80=99m planning on making a casting myself but it would nice to know alter= nate sources.

Bill;=

I don=E2=80=99t rec= all where I got the tube =E2=80=93 there are a number of vendors.  I t= hink I bought U-bends which were then cut and welded. The tube size was cho= sen to have a circumference close to match that of the ports.  The fab= ricator then made mandrels to shape the tubes to match the ports =E2=80=93 = then welded into the water-jet cut flange.

 = ;

Al

 

 

 

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancairo= nline.net] On Behalf Of Al Gietzen
Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2010 = 5:06 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Tuned lengths

 

Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Tuned lengths

 

Please post drawings/photos/specs...Yvon

 

Some photos of the intake manifold for the 20B are attached. It= is 4.5=E2=80=9D from flange to flange; the TB flange is at a slight angle = to fit my installation; the TB is TWM 3003; 44mm diameter bores.

 

Another builder built his from my drawings and had a couple ext= ra made.  At least one is still available. The price is around $1000; = I=E2=80=99ll have to check. That=C3=A2=E2=82=AC=E2=84=A2s a real deal =E2= =80=93 by the time I had mine fabricated and heat treated it was over $2000= .  Let me know if anyone is interested.

 

Al




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