X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from fed1rmmtao105.cox.net ([68.230.241.41] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.5) with ESMTP id 4190181 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 23:25:57 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=68.230.241.41; envelope-from=rv-4mike@cox.net Received: from fed1rmimpo03.cox.net ([70.169.32.75]) by fed1rmmtao105.cox.net (InterMail vM.8.00.01.00 201-2244-105-20090324) with ESMTP id <20100331032521.BCIJ20564.fed1rmmtao105.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 23:25:21 -0400 Received: from willsPC ([174.66.169.142]) by fed1rmimpo03.cox.net with bizsmtp id zfRM1d00334gpFS04fRM0M; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 23:25:21 -0400 X-VR-Score: -130.00 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=yjuDh3Ma92GrVaJxYD7gfORM7ilP1Knqouyx6SOEBcg= c=1 sm=1 a=zZcljh6C7xsA:10 a=cPUexvdKvEVW1PN6gG+JiA==:17 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=UretUmmEAAAA:8 a=pedpZTtsAAAA:8 a=7g1VtSJxAAAA:8 a=Tq6jLOBy8RIZKwxIUegA:9 a=Eevh0yoJXIcMgC3ONuEA:7 a=qHudfwRXJmpfVKtMCDVypSPMOZgA:4 a=wPNLvfGTeEIA:10 a=Qa1je4BO31QA:10 a=EzXvWhQp4_cA:10 a=iVkDmfvjeKcA:10 a=eJojReuL3h0A:10 a=j3qL2vlirMNVc0U4:21 a=QvcGwxcQqPmQHcRK:21 a=h2J9Tbsc4U9Y5BUP4SgA:9 a=RuQR43LjkeJ1ETQrgjsA:7 a=GcEGOs64TMTtuo7rKfpM0CHHJCwA:4 a=xagXqVDi02_dnIY9:21 a=QPu76bkgK4rvg3HH:21 a=cPUexvdKvEVW1PN6gG+JiA==:117 X-CM-Score: 0.00 Message-ID: <740518C1AA6A4504A4491F9CA293E3A3@willsPC> From: "Mike Wills" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: FLIGHT DATA 1 Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 20:25:21 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0019_01CAD047.1ED918C0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8089.726 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8089.726 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01CAD047.1ED918C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Well that's just not fair after all the hassle I went through to get = mine to run. Mike Wills From: Steven W. Boese=20 Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 7:52 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: FLIGHT DATA 1 As another data point, we recently put together an engine stand to take = to the Contact Magazine alternative engine roundup in Jean, NV last = weekend. The engine is a 1987 13B NA with the stock automotive intake = and injectors. The MAP sensor lines were connected to the dynamic = chamber with no damping elements. The engine ran perfectly at all = throttle settings using the default EC2 parameters with absolutely no = tuning. Static RPM with the reduction drive and propeller was 5000 rpm. = I don't know how that propeller compares with those normally used. Steve Boese =20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf = Of Tracy Crook [tracy@rotaryaviation.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 8:13 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: FLIGHT DATA 1 Those are not good places to get the manifold pressure from for the very = reasons you are saying. The best place is in the plenum chamber just = after the throttle body. I have never experienced the bouncing MP that = others have experienced when using that location. I have a fairly long = silicone hose to the EC2/3 which may also help but there is nothing = wrong with the small orifice & accumulator that some are using. Tracy On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 7:56 PM, Bill Bradburry = wrote: I bought a couple of fuel filters today. Before I install them I have = a couple of questions. I have two taps into the intake manifold about an inch apart. Each of = these taps connect to completely separate lines(one of them has a "T" in it = which goes to the fuel pressure regulator) which go to the two separate = inlets on the EC-2. These two lines are probably of different lengths, and the = one has a "T" in it. So any pulses could get to the EC-2 at different times = even though they originate from the same place. Question: should I "Y" these two lines together into the same filter = and then back out and separate them to go to the EC-2 so the pulses are = more "homogenized" between the two inlets to the EC-2, or keep them = separate as before? Is this going to slow down the response to a throttle change and cause = the engine to "bog" when the throttle is first opened? It occurs to me = the factory probably solves this problem with the throttle position sensor = which we don't have. I am interested in Tracy's take on this since he knows how his system operates. I am assuming that we need to do this in the first place = because his system calculates so fast that the pulses cause a problem??? Bill B -----Original Message----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] = On Behalf Of Steven W. Boese Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 10:07 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: FLIGHT DATA 1 I used small fuel filters in the MAP sensing line. I soldered the end closest to the intake manifold shut and then drilled a small hole = through the solder. This hole was small enough to cause instability (surging) = of the engine at idle. The hole through the solder was successively = drilled larger until the surging stopped. The resulting damping system has = been in use on my plane for several years now. I haven't tried removing it to = see if the upgraded EC2's don't need this. It's been long enough that I = can't remember what size of hole I ended up with, although that would be = easy enough to measure next time the cowl is off. Steve Boese ________________________________________ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On = Behalf Of Bill Bradburry [bbradburry@bellsouth.net] Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 9:37 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: FLIGHT DATA 1 I have heard of others using some kind of expansion chamber like this, = but Don is the first I have heard of including a restriction in the line = as well. He got an improvement with the restriction before he added the expansion chamber. I wonder if both would be needed to dampen out the pulses? Bill B -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01CAD047.1ED918C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Well that=92s just not fair after all the = hassle I went=20 through to get mine to run.
 
Mike Wills

Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 7:52 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: FLIGHT DATA 1

As another = data point, we=20 recently put together an engine stand to take to the Contact=20 Magazine alternative engine roundup in Jean, NV last weekend.  = The=20 engine is a 1987 13B NA with the stock automotive intake and=20 injectors.  The MAP sensor lines were connected to the dynamic = chamber=20 with no damping elements.  The engine ran perfectly at all throttle = settings using the default EC2 parameters with absolutely no = tuning. =20 Static RPM with the reduction drive and propeller was 5000 rpm.  I = don't=20 know how that propeller compares with those normally used.
 
Steve=20 Boese  
From: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 [flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Tracy Crook=20 [tracy@rotaryaviation.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 8:13=20 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: = [FlyRotary] Re:=20 FLIGHT DATA 1

Those are not good places to get the manifold pressure from for the = very=20 reasons you are saying.  The best place is in the plenum chamber = just after=20 the throttle body.  I have never experienced the bouncing MP that = others=20 have experienced when using that location.  I have a fairly long = silicone=20 hose to the EC2/3 which may also help but there is nothing wrong with = the small=20 orifice & accumulator that some are using.

Tracy

On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 7:56 PM, Bill Bradburry = <bbradburry@bellsouth.net>= =20 wrote:
I bought a couple of fuel filters today. =  Before I=20 install them I have a
couple of questions.
I have two taps into = the=20 intake manifold about an inch apart.  Each of these
taps = connect to=20 completely separate lines(one of them has a "T" in it which
goes to = the=20 fuel pressure regulator) which go to the two separate inlets on
the = EC-2.=20 These two lines are probably of different lengths, and the one = has
a "T" in=20 it.  So any pulses could get to the EC-2 at different times=20 even
though they originate from the same place.
Question: =  should I=20 "Y" these two lines together into the same filter and
then back out = and=20 separate them to go to the EC-2 so the pulses are = more
"homogenized"=20 between the two inlets to the EC-2, or keep them separate = as
before?
Is=20 this going to slow down the response to a throttle change and cause=20 the
engine to "bog" when the throttle is first opened?  It = occurs to=20 me the
factory probably solves this problem with the throttle = position=20 sensor which
we don't have.

I am interested in Tracy's take = on this=20 since he knows how his system
operates.  I am assuming that we = need to=20 do this in the first place because
his system calculates so fast = that the=20 pulses cause a problem???

Bill B

-----Original Message-----
From: = Rotary=20 motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]=20 On
Behalf Of Steven W. Boese
Sent: Tuesday, March 30, = 2010 10:07=20 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = FLIGHT=20 DATA 1

I used small fuel filters in the MAP sensing line. =  I=20 soldered the end
closest to the intake manifold shut and then = drilled a=20 small hole through
the solder.  This hole was small enough to = cause=20 instability (surging) of
the engine at idle.  The hole through = the=20 solder was successively drilled
larger until the surging stopped. =  The=20 resulting damping system has been in
use on my plane for several = years now.=20  I haven't tried removing it to see
if the upgraded EC2's = don't need=20 this.  It's been long enough that I can't
remember what size = of hole I=20 ended up with, although that would be easy
enough to measure next = time the=20 cowl is off.

Steve=20 Boese


________________________________________
From: = Rotary=20 motors in aircraft [flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On=20 Behalf Of
Bill Bradburry [bbradburry@bellsouth.net]Sent:=20 Monday, March 29, 2010 9:37 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: = [FlyRotary] Re:=20 FLIGHT DATA 1

I have heard of others using some kind of = expansion=20 chamber like this, but
Don is the first I have heard of including a = restriction in the line as
well.  He got an improvement with = the=20 restriction before he added the
expansion chamber.  I wonder = if both=20 would be needed to dampen out the
pulses?

Bill B
--
Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and = UnSub:
http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.htm= l


--
Homepage:=20  http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub: =   http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.htm= l

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