X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from willowsprings.uwyo.edu ([129.72.10.31] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.5) with ESMTPS id 4190082 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 22:53:37 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=129.72.10.31; envelope-from=SBoese@uwyo.edu Received: from ponyexpress-ht1.uwyo.edu (ponyexpress-ht1.uwyo.edu [10.84.60.208]) by willowsprings.uwyo.edu (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id o2V2qwr8012382 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL) for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 20:52:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from SBoese@uwyo.edu) Received: from ponyexpress-mb5.uwyo.edu ([fe80::9c55:bfd9:7a5b:5a4]) by ponyexpress-ht1 ([10.84.60.208]) with mapi; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 20:52:59 -0600 From: "Steven W. Boese" To: Rotary motors in aircraft Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 20:52:56 -0600 Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: FLIGHT DATA 1 Thread-Topic: [FlyRotary] Re: FLIGHT DATA 1 Thread-Index: AcrQeAy90N8hWBwqSAu3ZpzVDkVNmwAA7/LY Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_E1AA3B1AF41D8049B1E3FBD5E225626004AD803C6Dponyexpressmb_" MIME-Version: 1.0 --_000_E1AA3B1AF41D8049B1E3FBD5E225626004AD803C6Dponyexpressmb_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable As another data point, we recently put together an engine stand to take to = the Contact Magazine alternative engine roundup in Jean, NV last weekend. = The engine is a 1987 13B NA with the stock automotive intake and injectors.= The MAP sensor lines were connected to the dynamic chamber with no dampin= g elements. The engine ran perfectly at all throttle settings using the de= fault EC2 parameters with absolutely no tuning. Static RPM with the reduct= ion drive and propeller was 5000 rpm. I don't know how that propeller comp= ares with those normally used. Steve Boese ________________________________ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of = Tracy Crook [tracy@rotaryaviation.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 8:13 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: FLIGHT DATA 1 Those are not good places to get the manifold pressure from for the very re= asons you are saying. The best place is in the plenum chamber just after t= he throttle body. I have never experienced the bouncing MP that others hav= e experienced when using that location. I have a fairly long silicone hose= to the EC2/3 which may also help but there is nothing wrong with the small= orifice & accumulator that some are using. Tracy On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 7:56 PM, Bill Bradburry > wrote: I bought a couple of fuel filters today. Before I install them I have a couple of questions. I have two taps into the intake manifold about an inch apart. Each of thes= e taps connect to completely separate lines(one of them has a "T" in it which goes to the fuel pressure regulator) which go to the two separate inlets on the EC-2. These two lines are probably of different lengths, and the one ha= s a "T" in it. So any pulses could get to the EC-2 at different times even though they originate from the same place. Question: should I "Y" these two lines together into the same filter and then back out and separate them to go to the EC-2 so the pulses are more "homogenized" between the two inlets to the EC-2, or keep them separate as before? Is this going to slow down the response to a throttle change and cause the engine to "bog" when the throttle is first opened? It occurs to me the factory probably solves this problem with the throttle position sensor whic= h we don't have. I am interested in Tracy's take on this since he knows how his system operates. I am assuming that we need to do this in the first place because his system calculates so fast that the pulses cause a problem??? Bill B -----Original Message----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Steven W. Boese Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 10:07 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: FLIGHT DATA 1 I used small fuel filters in the MAP sensing line. I soldered the end closest to the intake manifold shut and then drilled a small hole through the solder. This hole was small enough to cause instability (surging) of the engine at idle. The hole through the solder was successively drilled larger until the surging stopped. The resulting damping system has been in use on my plane for several years now. I haven't tried removing it to see if the upgraded EC2's don't need this. It's been long enough that I can't remember what size of hole I ended up with, although that would be easy enough to measure next time the cowl is off. Steve Boese ________________________________________ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Bill Bradburry [bbradburry@bellsouth.net] Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 9:37 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: FLIGHT DATA 1 I have heard of others using some kind of expansion chamber like this, but Don is the first I have heard of including a restriction in the line as well. He got an improvement with the restriction before he added the expansion chamber. I wonder if both would be needed to dampen out the pulses? Bill B -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.= html --_000_E1AA3B1AF41D8049B1E3FBD5E225626004AD803C6Dponyexpressmb_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
As anot= her data point, we recently put together an engine stand to take to the Con= tact Magazine alternative engine roundup in Jean, NV last weekend.&nbs= p; The engine is a 1987 13B NA with the stock automotive intake and injectors.  The MAP sensor lines were connected to th= e dynamic chamber with no damping elements.  The engine ran perfectly = at all throttle settings using the default EC2 parameters with absolutely n= o tuning.  Static RPM with the reduction drive and propeller was 5000 rpm.  I don't know how that propeller compares= with those normally used.
=  
Steve Boese  
From: Rotary motors in aircraft [fl= yrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Tracy Crook [tracy@rotaryaviation.c= om]
Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 8:13 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: FLIGHT DATA 1

Those are not good places to get the manifold pressure from for the ve= ry reasons you are saying.  The best place is in the plenum chamber ju= st after the throttle body.  I have never experienced the bouncing MP = that others have experienced when using that location.  I have a fairly long silicone hose to the EC2/3 which may = also help but there is nothing wrong with the small orifice & accumulat= or that some are using.

Tracy

On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 7:56 PM, Bill Bradburry = <bbradburry@bellsouth.net> wrote:
I bought a couple of fuel filters today.  Before I install them I have= a
couple of questions.
I have two taps into the intake manifold about an inch apart.  Each of= these
taps connect to completely separate lines(one of them has a "T" i= n it which
goes to the fuel pressure regulator) which go to the two separate inlets on=
the EC-2. These two lines are probably of different lengths, and the one ha= s
a "T" in it.  So any pulses could get to the EC-2 at differe= nt times even
though they originate from the same place.
Question:  should I "Y" these two lines together into the sa= me filter and
then back out and separate them to go to the EC-2 so the pulses are more "homogenized" between the two inlets to the EC-2, or keep them se= parate as
before?
Is this going to slow down the response to a throttle change and cause the<= br> engine to "bog" when the throttle is first opened?  It occur= s to me the
factory probably solves this problem with the throttle position sensor whic= h
we don't have.

I am interested in Tracy's take on this since he knows how his system
operates.  I am assuming that we need to do this in the first place be= cause
his system calculates so fast that the pulses cause a problem???

Bill B

-----Original Message-----
From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On
Behalf Of Steven W. Boese
Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 10:07 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: FLIGHT DATA 1

I used small fuel filters in the MAP sensing line.  I soldered the end=
closest to the intake manifold shut and then drilled a small hole through the solder.  This hole was small enough to cause instability (surging)= of
the engine at idle.  The hole through the solder was successively dril= led
larger until the surging stopped.  The resulting damping system has be= en in
use on my plane for several years now.  I haven't tried removing it to= see
if the upgraded EC2's don't need this.  It's been long enough that I c= an't
remember what size of hole I ended up with, although that would be easy
enough to measure next time the cowl is off.

Steve Boese


________________________________________
From: Rotary motors in aircraft [flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of
Bill Bradburry [bbradburry@bell= south.net]
Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 9:37 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: FLIGHT DATA 1

I have heard of others using some kind of expansion chamber like this, but<= br> Don is the first I have heard of including a restriction in the line as
well.  He got an improvement with the restriction before he added the<= br> expansion chamber.  I wonder if both would be needed to dampen out the=
pulses?

Bill B

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