Mailing List flyrotary@lancaironline.net Message #50030
From: Ed Anderson <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
Subject: injector position was Re: Runner velocity
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 12:58:19 -0500
To: 'Rotary motors in aircraft' <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>

Jeff, you will probably get a number of views on this topic.

 

There are those who believe injecting the fuel nearer the TB (further from the intake ports) will give better mixing of air and fuel and more importantly more time for the fuel to turn from liquid droplets to vapor/gas  therefore better efficiency.  There are others that believe whatever mixing benefit you get you lose something because now there is a longer run with metal walls to cause the fuel to adhere to the walls and not mix as completely.  Like most things probably a bit of validity to both views.

 

I have tired it both ways.  I had a 75mm TB and four injectors sitting approx 18” from the intake ports.  I could not tell if there were any increase in efficiency or power – there may have been but with the limitation of my instrumentation you just could not tell whether there was or not.  It certainly wasn’t significant.

 

However, what I did encounter was if I suddenly opened the throttle, the engine would bog or hesitate – the engine  never stopped, but I found that this used up more seat cushions on a go-a-rounds {:>).  So I went back to putting the primary injectors in the block and secondary injectors as close as I could get to the intake ports.  I personally like this arrangement. YMMV.

 

My 0.02 worth

 

Ed

 


From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Jeff Luckey
Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2010 11:46 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Runner velocity

 

After reading this, a question comes to mind:

 

What is the difference between throttle body injection and port injection? I’ve heard people say that w/ the injectors up near the TB, you get better fuel/air mixing.  Is that an old-wives-tale?  Which one makes more horsepower, gives better throttle response, etc?  It seems to me that fabrication of intake manifold would be easier for injectors near the TB.

 

Apparently there are benefits of port injection (‘cause that’s what the production engine uses) but I don’t know what they are..

 

What are the pros and cons of each?

 

 

BTW – Happy Birthday Ed :)!

 


From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Lynn Hanover
Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2010 08:09
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Runner velocity

 

 

This is a free download of the Bernoulli Principal. Fun to play with and educational.

 

The amount of fuel air entering the chamber is a function of runner cross section, velocity and time.

 

The depression, or vacuum generated is a function of displacement and RPM. So the depression is about fixed by the 2606CCs and say, 6,000 RPM. The "M" in RPM is the time. So............

 

That leaves only Porting to increase intake open and closing time, (lengthen time period) and manufacturing the ideal intake runner set/ Throttle body combination.

 

In my mind the runner size would be identical the the port opening for 4 to 6 inches out from the port opening. Then blend into one "D" shaped pipe for the 180 bend over the engine top. Then taper to a larger pipe of about 2 1/2" to blend into a plenum just big enough to fit the throttle body mounting plate.

 

So, the cross section would be reduced gradually from the throttle body to the end of the "D" shape, then remain constant right up to the port opening.

 

I would upset the inside radius of the "D" shape with a number of burs stood up with a three corner punch, to generate some tubulance.in order to keep flow attached.

 

Just a guess. I could be completely wrong.

 

Later, I tried a 75MM at one point and while it did nothing to improve engine power and performance, in my case it had an undesirable down side – now to be fair it could have been partially the results of having all 4 injectors back near the throttle body – but in any case, if you suddenly opened the throttle like in a panic go-a-round – the engine would bog and hesitate for a fraction of a second (seemed like minutes {:>)), the engine never stopped, but I just didn’t like it.  So I went back to the 65mm.

 

So the important thing is to match your induction system to your real operating regime – NOT what you would in your wildest dream like for it to  be {:>).

 

Ed Anderson

 

You are only 70??

Run hard and put away wet comes to mind..............

 

Lynn E. Hanover



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