X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail-px0-f190.google.com ([209.85.216.190] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.2) with ESMTP id 4115233 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 18:25:04 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.216.190; envelope-from=wdleonard@gmail.com Received: by pxi28 with SMTP id 28so3511454pxi.7 for ; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 15:24:27 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=bEFh67y/STyGzH0cKlXIOzbGRrGusoFKzuh5G5sAIFs=; b=tFHiS/4aQes5S7ZFxy3esZo2+ymr2RnUabY21GUmCmrmcXb5LWr+qCB/ZCM9w3uQDl EhnIcWrlpCNTjwERdDN0jivyO01j2VDjQtjXmSyZfgLCoD8EhhOFVl9+zt6wx+PSmnlZ /oXrKfTDJFFLQ8jWEVfWOasRHGlwc9k0w+qnc= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=jx76hm8TQFGHyn2eCud9/hSL+osxXHLL3IesPNuKkeSWB65RyQHFVgwXup8QRn4DHk P3ANqDyjs7R/N+FV5CanWANRand/ufpnnK1cZrabvm9KGpOKgCxwv5bMQKum09y3sh+B B8PT9bAnGwBeibBU8zcGNHTbbwLL9MHsYr4Do= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.142.66.24 with SMTP id o24mr3733993wfa.250.1265585067761; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 15:24:27 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 15:24:27 -0800 Message-ID: <1c23473f1002071524y7e96a649jb2bcde276460d828@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] N.A. Renesis to turbo From: David Leonard To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001636e0a4d565a101047f0afcd1 --001636e0a4d565a101047f0afcd1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi Don, Kinda busy right now but will have some time tuesday night. You did a great job on your plane and should be able to pull off an excellent turbo conversion. -- David Leonard Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net http://RotaryRoster.net On Sat, Feb 6, 2010 at 6:21 PM, Don Wallker wrote: > Dear list, Turbo flyers and especially David Leonard, > I've 16 flying hours on my RV-8 with a Renesis and all of Tracy's stuff > and a Catto 76/88. The airplane flys great, just like an RV, no gliding > time, and about 36 hours on the ground. SPECS > Full throttle 8,000' 174 mph indicated, 2450 on the prop, water 185, oil > 205, > Climb out 110 mph, rate of climb, 1250'/min. Field elevation 5046. > > These are not bad numbers, but I would like better. I've been influenced > by some of the the local jet jocks who say that there is no such thing as > too much horsepower and they are right! N113BR seems to be performing > about like a 160-170 HP RV. So I am investigating turboing it! The idea is > to have a little better than sea level performance on take off (designed for > 210HP N.A.) and turbo normalizing at cruise. Up to 12000' would be nice. > During the air races this year, Dave Leonard showed up and I was very > impressed by his airplane. He was able to turbo and inter cool it and have > it all inside an RV cowl, so I'll likely base my installation on his. > Plus, he has been through the learning curve of 3 or so turbos so he knows > what to do, what not to do and what would be better if he were to do it all > over again. > > I've spent the afternoon looking through the archives, reading as much as I > can find about turbos, and downloading all the photos I can. Here is what I > am tentatively planning on doing. > Get one of Techwelding's Renesis exhaust flanges made from 304 SS and have > my local waterjet guy copy it and make one out of 321SS. I'll weld 321 SS > and manifold it together and run it into the bottom of the turbo that will > sit right in front of the exhaust. The turbo will have additional support. > Run the turbo outlet air from it through a stock RX-7 inter cooler sitting > in front of the left cheek opening and then out to the right side of the > engine, probably routing it under the PSRU and then up to a throttle body > and manifold. Then four al tubes over the top of the engine into a cut down > and welded up stock RX-8 intake manifold. The exhaust out of the turbo > will run down and out in the usual center of the back of the cowl opening. > I am thinking of trying one of Burns Stainless all SS mufflers. It is > basically a glass pack, but instead of glass, they are using stainless steel > wool and they say it is holding up for the rotary racers. They make it any > length you want and is about 4 lbs with their SS vs 9 lbs with the hushpower > 2 I'm using now. The combustion air intake to the turbo will be on the aft > left side of the cowl via an NACA duct opening as Dave's is. > The oil cooler will have to be moved to under the engine. I will build up > a fiberglass scoop, probably based on Van's scoop and modify it to have a > bigger opening and be farther forward, closer to the prop. I will probably > have the oil cooler made a little larger (Techwelding) than the one I have > now. > > That's the basic idea at this point. I'll finalize my plan, prebuild as > much as possible before tearing the airplane apart and try for as little > down time as possible. I'm looking for the list's critique here, plus > questions that I will have missed. The following are a list of questions > that I have. > 1. Which turbo should I use, which orientation and who should I use to do > the work, plus what is the approximate price? TO4 hybrid? Dave and Steve > Brooks mention BNR turbo as a modifier. Who manufactures the turbo? > 2. What is the ideal situation with a waste gate? Full open or not, or, > or? > 3. I read about a N.O.oil line solenoid to the turbo bearings. I assume > that if the Turbo fails, you turn it on to the N.C. position to prevent oil > from being pumped down your exhaust? I assume the oil that is used is > routed back to the sump. > 4. What size exhaust is optimum? It seems Dave is running 2.5 inch. > 5. What size throttle body should I use and what would be a good one? One > throttle body or two? 4. What size injectors should I use, and where should > the secondaries be placed? Dave is using 480cc and staging is at 32 > inches. Are you using the same for the primaries and is there an idle > problem with the larger injectors? > 5. Anyone out there turboing a Renesis? Anyone flying one? > 6. My compression is 9.7 to 1. Any problems with this higher compression > ratio as long as I use an inter cooler and keep the boost no higher than > 35"? > And lot more questions, but that's all I can think of now. > So If any of you can add any thought, let me know. > > Don Walker > > > -- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub: > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > --001636e0a4d565a101047f0afcd1 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Don,
Kinda busy right now but will have some time tuesday night.=A0 Y= ou did a great job on your plane and should be able to pull off an excellen= t turbo conversion.=A0=A0

--
David Leonard

Turbo Rotary = RV-6 N4VY
http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.nethttp://RotaryRoster.net


On Sat, Feb= 6, 2010 at 6:21 PM, Don Wallker <drwalker@gbis.com> wrote:
Dear list, Turbo = flyers and especially David Leonard,
=A0 I've 16 flying hours on my RV-8 with a Renesis and all of Tracy= 9;s stuff and a Catto 76/88. =A0The airplane flys great, just like an RV, n= o gliding time, and about 36 hours on the ground. SPECS
Full throttle 8,000' =A0 174 mph indicated, 2450 on the prop, water 185= , oil 205,
Climb out 110 mph, rate of climb, 1250'/min. =A0Field elevation 5046.
These are not bad numbers, but I would like better. =A0I've been influe= nced by some of the the local jet jocks who say that there is no such thing= as too much horsepower and they are right! =A0 N113BR seems to be performi= ng about like a 160-170 HP RV. =A0So I am investigating turboing it! =A0The= idea is to have a little better than sea level performance on take off (de= signed for 210HP N.A.) and turbo normalizing at cruise. =A0Up to 12000'= would be nice.
During the air races this year, Dave Leonard showed up and I was very impre= ssed by his airplane. =A0He was able to turbo and inter cool it and have it= all inside an RV cowl, so I'll =A0likely base my installation on his. = =A0Plus, he has been through the learning curve of 3 or so turbos so he kno= ws what to do, what not to do and what would be better if he were to do it = all over again.

I've spent the afternoon looking through the archives, reading as much = as I can find about turbos, and downloading all the photos I can. =A0Here i= s what I am tentatively planning =A0on doing.
Get one of Techwelding's Renesis exhaust flanges made from 304 SS and h= ave my local waterjet guy copy it and make one out of 321SS. =A0I'll we= ld 321 SS and =A0manifold it together and run it into the bottom of the tur= bo that will sit right in front of the exhaust. =A0The turbo will have addi= tional support. =A0Run the turbo outlet air from it through a stock RX-7 in= ter cooler sitting in front of the left cheek opening and then out to the r= ight side of the engine, probably routing it under the PSRU and then up to = a throttle body and manifold. =A0Then four al tubes over the top of the eng= ine into a cut down and welded up stock RX-8 =A0intake manifold. =A0The exh= aust out of the turbo will run down and out in the usual center of the back= of the cowl opening. =A0I am thinking of trying one of Burns Stainless all= SS mufflers. =A0It is basically a glass pack, but instead of glass, they a= re using stainless steel wool and they say it is holding up for the rotary = racers. =A0They make it any length you want and is about 4 lbs with their S= S vs 9 lbs with the hushpower 2 I'm using now. =A0The combustion air in= take to the turbo will be on the aft left side of the cowl via an NACA duct= opening as Dave's is.
The oil cooler will have to be moved to under the engine. =A0I will build u= p a fiberglass scoop, probably based on Van's scoop and modify it to ha= ve a bigger opening and be farther forward, closer to the prop. =A0I will p= robably =A0have the oil cooler made a little larger (Techwelding) than the = one I have now.

That's the basic idea at this point. =A0I'll finalize my plan, preb= uild as much as possible before tearing the airplane apart and try for as l= ittle down time as possible. =A0I'm looking for the list's critique= here, plus questions that I will have missed. =A0The following are a list = of questions that I have.
1. Which turbo should I use, which orientation and who should I use to do t= he work, plus what is the approximate price? =A0 TO4 hybrid? =A0Dave and St= eve Brooks mention BNR turbo as a modifier. =A0Who manufactures the turbo?<= br> 2. What is the ideal situation with a waste gate? =A0Full open or not, or, = or?
3. I read about a N.O.oil line solenoid to the turbo bearings. =A0I assume = that if the Turbo fails, you turn it on to the N.C. position to prevent oil= from being pumped down your exhaust? =A0I assume the oil that is used is r= outed back to the sump.
4. What size exhaust is optimum? =A0It seems Dave is running 2.5 inch.
5. =A0What size throttle body should I use and what would be a good one? On= e throttle body or two? 4. =A0What size injectors should I use, and where s= hould the secondaries be placed? =A0 Dave is using 480cc and staging is at = 32 inches. =A0Are you using the same for the primaries and is there an idle= problem with the larger injectors?
5. =A0Anyone out there turboing a Renesis? =A0Anyone flying one?
6. =A0My compression is 9.7 to 1. =A0 Any problems with this higher compres= sion ratio as long as I use an inter cooler and keep the boost no higher th= an 35"?
And lot more questions, but that's all I can think of now.
So If any of you can add any thought, let me know.

Don Walker




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