X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail-qy0-f176.google.com ([209.85.221.176] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3c3) with ESMTP id 4013807 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 10 Dec 2009 09:25:56 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.221.176; envelope-from=rwstracy@gmail.com Received: by qyk6 with SMTP id 6so3559330qyk.3 for ; Thu, 10 Dec 2009 06:25:21 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:in-reply-to :references:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=FWcDEtj/PNq2wA54Q8ChoTcsa++Kb4brhZOhA3tNsZA=; b=djZKvzlgkMAFF+3hTO3t4KJUHIvq2+njNfa7KQcoNDtxYF1bBlqlry6Wca3YsIqTfo fY4DPwjamePiM1Mh8GwTGSsAWfdwa9x3kGM7jyEp5N0hoMnd8D2T981f+/0Kb50gA7iP bo8wqFk8cVsPww766I5DEC/aZ5LecldaRDwF0= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; b=QyiU/6WmXe4d4BL34MSjyqJKx+ddPLpbiGwjtZLKtuFBILDoHXRHRQMXpr/+ASApIq wXZ1M0Rl6cIA9RpEBBm6ZaZPat899TEA2Ha9lJcMekZ74T03aF38Lxn5xu9QbgXCkofV mReaU2AWFWJZFOaSxPzoyG+a/hCmXN14X6YXg= MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: rwstracy@gmail.com Received: by 10.224.108.204 with SMTP id g12mr6501601qap.270.1260455119391; Thu, 10 Dec 2009 06:25:19 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 09:25:19 -0500 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 415e5f384b07c070 Message-ID: <1b4b137c0912100625o21e59260q96952e5d223e038e@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: EC2 signals From: Tracy Crook To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000feaeb4d87a58ec2047a609336 --000feaeb4d87a58ec2047a609336 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I second Al's comments Steve. I never looked at this very closely because my engine always started quickly and easily but there is something very odd going on in that low rpm range. I just ordered the equipment I need to simulate this on my bench test setup and will report what I find. Tracy On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 9:23 PM, Al Gietzen wrote: > Steve; > > > > You are to be commended for some very scholarly work, and excellent > reporting. There are many hours invested there, as well as expenses for > equipment. > > > > For nearly 2 years now I have been puzzled by my observation of spark > conditions during cranking that are consistent with your findings. Since= my > engine has always started, and run well, I didn't have motivation to purs= ue > the causes. It may also be at least part of the explanation for the > inability to get smooth operation below 1200 rpm. > > > > Of course my EC2 has been updated since, so I don=92t know if the behavio= r is > still the same. > > > > Coincidentally, just this past week I have done some further tests of > timing adjustment. You my recall from my dyno report that the timing of = my > engine as I received it was way off because of the use of a 12A front cov= er > (and pointer) on the 20B engine. We set the CAS position based on > estimated TDC by observing the tip seals between the leading and trailing > plug holes. During the testing we verified the timing based on a trace f= rom > a pressure transducer in a trailing plug hole; and decided that about -2 > steps on the EC2 it 'looked right'. I've been running that way since (an= d > the 2 steps retarded may have been a plus as far as starting spark is > concerned). > > > > Some time back I had varied the timing a couple of steps during static > runup; and could not discern a difference, so I left it as is. I haven= =92t > bothered with in-flight variation, partly because I was a bit hesitant to= be > changing it during flight. I finally did so at lean cruise conditions, an= d > found that about 3 more steps retarding made a discernable increase in rp= m > (5450 to 5500). So my EC2 is now set at -10 degrees from default. I > haven=92t yet made any further spark checks, or even observed if low idle= is > any smoother. > > > > I may retard a bit on the CAS, and then do some more observation to see i= f > there is an =91optimum=92. Then set one of the controllers 5 steps retar= ded for > use in starting. > > > > I guess you have now added to Tracy=92s TTD list to figure out what, if > anything, should be done as a result. > > > > Al > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On > Behalf Of sboese > Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2009 2:30 PM > To: Rotary motors in aircraft > Subject: [FlyRotary] EC2 signals > > > > Steve, Al and others who may be interested in EC2 ignition characteristic= s, > > > > I have added a page to the http://www.rotarycopilot.com/ website which is > an > > attempt to show why I choose to use a 10 degree retarded mode 8 ignition > > timing setting. This setting is beneficial for startup and very slow idl= e > > with my EC2's. > > The previously mentioned download to this information has been removed fr= om > > the website's downloads page. Now the information can be viewed directly > > without having to download, unzip, and open the html file. > > With the version of Internet Explorer I have, it is possible to click on = an > > image from the web site page and download the original if a clearer image > is > > desired. > > > > Steve Boese > > > > > > > > -- > > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > > Archive and UnSub: > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > --000feaeb4d87a58ec2047a609336 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I second Al's comments Steve.=A0 I never looked at this very closely be= cause my engine always started quickly and easily but there is something ve= ry odd going on in that low rpm range.=A0=A0 I just ordered the equipment I= need to simulate this on my bench test setup and will report what I find.<= br>
Tracy

On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 9:23 PM,= Al Gietzen <ALV= entures@cox.net> wrote:

Steve;

=A0

You are to be commended for some very scholarly work, and excellent reporting.=A0 There are many hours invested there, as well as expenses for equipment.

=A0

For nearly 2 years now I have been puzzled by my observation of spark conditions during cranking that are consistent with yo= ur findings.=A0 Since my engine has always started, and run well, I didn't= have motivation to pursue the causes.=A0 It may also be at least part of the exp= lanation for the inability to get smooth operation below 1200 rpm.

=A0

Of course my EC2 has been updated since, so I don=92t know if the behavior is still the sam<= span style=3D"font-family: Verdana;">e.

=A0

Coincidentally, just this past week I have done some further tests of timing adjustment.=A0 You my recall from my dyno report that the timing of my engine as I received it was way off because of the us= e of a 12A front cover (and pointer) on the 20B engine. =A0We set the CAS= positi= on based on estimated TDC by observing the tip seals between the leading and trailing plug holes. =A0= During the testing we verified the timing based on a trace from a pressure transdu= cer in a trailing plug hole; and decided that about -2 steps on the EC2 it '= ;looked right'. =A0I've been running that way since (and the 2 steps retard= ed may have been a plus as far as starting spark is concerned).

=A0

Some time back I had varied the timing a couple of steps during static runup; and could not discern a difference, so I left it as is= .=A0 I haven=92t bothered with in-flight variation, partly because I was a bit hesitant to be changing it during flight. I finally did so at lean cruise conditions, and found that about 3 more steps retarding made a discernable increase in rpm (5450 to 5500).=A0 So my EC2 is now set at -10 degrees from default.=A0 I haven=92t yet made any further spark checks, or even observed if low idle is any smoother.

=A0

I may retard a bit on the CAS, and then do some more observation to see if there is an =91optimum=92.=A0 Then set one of the controllers 5 steps retarded for use in starting.

=A0

I guess you have now added to Tracy=92s TTD list to figure= out what, if anything, should be done as a result.

=A0

Al

=A0

=A0

=A0

-----O= riginal Message-----
From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of sboese
Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2009 2:30 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] EC2 signals

=A0

Steve, Al and others who may be interested in EC2 ignition characteristics,=

=A0

I have added a page to the http://www.rotarycopilot.com/ website which is an

attemp= t to show why I choose to use a 10 degree retarded mode 8 ignition

timing setting.=A0 This setting is beneficial for startup and very slow idle

with my EC2's.=A0

The previously mentioned download to this information has been removed from

the website's downloads page.=A0 Now the information can be viewed directly=

withou= t having to download, unzip, and open the html file.

With the version of Internet Explorer I have, it is possible to click on an

image from the web site page and download the original if a clearer image is

desire= d.

=A0

Steve Boese

=A0=A0= =A0

=A0

=A0

--

Homepa= ge:=A0 http://www.flyrotar= y.com/

Archiv= e and UnSub:=A0=A0 http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html


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