X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from fmailhost06.isp.att.net ([204.127.217.106] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3c3) with ESMTP id 4004958 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 06 Dec 2009 12:40:41 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=204.127.217.106; envelope-from=keltro@att.net DKIM-Signature: v=1; q=dns/txt; d=att.net; s=dkim01; i=keltro@att.net; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1260121241; h=Content-Type: MIME-Version:In-Reply-To:Message-Id:Date:Subject:To:From; bh=R6yjT5 7YoQ6R3NdZavJqkJwIa78hc092tLT7SliqRp0=; b=sA7OVhZ4coZYrQAoO/+Wf+aDQ zGO5sFnfsDE41P1OFwFT/jVQX+KMDstwOz70ZjBliWYAQ3DqzcTslcd/GhLhQ== Received: from fwebmail08.isp.att.net ([204.127.218.108]) by isp.att.net (frfwmhc06) with SMTP id <20091206174006H0600llmdge>; Sun, 6 Dec 2009 17:40:06 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [204.127.218.108] Received: from [208.114.43.46] by fwebmail08.isp.att.net; Sun, 06 Dec 2009 17:40:05 +0000 From: "Kelly Troyer" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Subject: Oil starvation Date: Sun, 06 Dec 2009 17:40:05 +0000 Message-Id: <120620091740.6735.4B1BEC7500031C8F00001A4F22230703729B0A02D29B9B0EBF019D9B040A05@att.net> In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Mar 2 2009) X-Authenticated-Sender: a2VsdHJvQGF0dC5uZXQ= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_6735_1260121205_0" --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_6735_1260121205_0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lynn, Good info about saving slightly over heated housings !!.................. Great info about preventive health tests !!............... Thanks for sharing as their are a bunch of us in the group that are getting long in the tooth and probably need the very test you had !!............ Thank goodness you paid heed to your better half............Because we of the Rotary Group need you too !!.....................<:) -- Kelly Troyer "Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 "Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold -------------- Original message from Lynn Hanover : -------------- Here is the photo of the end housing damage by the oil starvation. > > Rino Lacombe Noting too bad there. The dark spots will be harder than the other areas now and will resist being smoothed down. Hit those lightly with a course stone then lap the irons against each other. Valve grinding compound is fine. Just get a dull grey surface all over. If one of the damaged area keeps showing up as a shiny spot, hit it again with the stone and lap some more. You can rig up a vertical mill to run slow enough to drag an iron around in circles with an offset bearing. Or, do it by hand. If after several hours of lapping, your suspect iron is only showing grey on two corners, the iron is warped beyond repair, and you need another iron. Sand the thrust surfaces on the rotors smooth. Put the rotors in a press and push the gear into its hole good and hard. Measure to be sure the land width is well below the minimum. (The width of the rotor housings).The side seals and corner seals will keep the rotors centered just fine. If you premix oil and fuel, use a synthetic straight weight oil in the sump. 40 wt unless you fly in Canada in the winter. And premix a name brand 2 cycle oil in the fuel. If you use the OMP, then use a straight weight racing oil in the sump. 40 weight again but a conventional oil not a synthetic. Why the racing oil? Why a conventional? Why a synthetic? A synthetic is by far the best lubricant, but most of them don't burn very well. So, if you premix, its the best choice. Racing oil has an additive that breaks up foam bubbles. Rotaries make lots of foam by squirting a stream of oil into the spinning rotors. Racing oils have lots of zinc compounds in them to prevent metal transfere. We don't want any metal transfer. So, the best sump oil when premixing is a synthetic racing oil. More antiscuff, more anti foam and the best lubricant. The 6,000 RPM you turn up an airplane engine is not the same as the 3,000 you might turn up a car engine. The street oil people hope you won't go over 4,000 RPM. The racing oil people know you will go over 6,000 RPM. My driver shifts at 9,600 RPM. Because the power curve has started down, not because the engine will not go higher without damage. In unlimited intake rules racing, the limit is 10,700 for short races and 10,300 for long races. In drag racing they leave the line at over 11,000 RPM. You do of course have to keep oil in it......... Lynn E. Hanover And on a darker note: Get a Doppler Carotid check. Cheap, fast, painless. My wife hounded me into getting one and I resisted because I don't like doctors or hospitals and I had no symptoms at all. My Doppler showed a major blockage on the right side. I did a dye check. Plastick hose through the groin into the Carotid to make high contrast movies in great detail from various angles. Not as bad as it sounds, but takes up a day of laying still in a bed watching TV. The movie shows a 99% blockage. The Doctor canceles office hours on Friday and does my Carotided. Cut open neck, cut open artery, peel out 1/2 pound of plaque, sew up artery, staple up neck. Feels fine just a bit stiff the first day. In the pictures it looks like a black soda straw with a one inch section missing. I was one sneeze away from........ And I have big arteries. Smaller folks don't fare as well. So get it done. Any candy ass can get through the Doppler test. They just rub your neck with a sensor. Maybe a pretty girl will do yours. Takes 5 minutes. Do it. So we won't have to help your widow sell your junk. --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_6735_1260121205_0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_6735_1260121205_1" --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_6735_1260121205_1 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Lynn,
   Good info about saving slightly over heated housings !!..= ................
 
   Great info about preventive health tests !!..............= .
 
   Thanks for sharing as their are a bunch of us in the grou= p that are
getting long in the tooth and probably need the very test you had !!..= ..........
 
   Thank goodness you paid heed to your better half.........= ...Because we
of the Rotary Group need you  too !!.....................<:)
--
Kelly Troyer
"Dyke Delta"_1= 3B ROTARY Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifol= d



 
-------------- Original message from Lynn Hanover <lehano= ver@gmail.com>: --------------

 Here is the photo of the end housing damage by the oil starvatio= n.
>
> Rino Lacombe
 
 
Noting too bad there. The dark spots will be harder than the other are= as now and will resist being smoothed down.
 
Hit those lightly with a course stone then lap the irons against each = other. Valve grinding compound is fine. Just get a dull grey surface all ov= er. If one of the damaged area keeps showing up as a shiny spot, hit it aga= in with the stone and lap some more.
 
You can rig up a vertical mill to run slow enough to drag an iron arou= nd in circles with an offset bearing.
 
Or, do it by hand. If after several hours of lapping, your suspect iro= n is only showing grey on two corners,
 
the iron is warped beyond repair, and you need another iron.
 
Sand the thrust surfaces on the rotors smooth.
 
Put the rotors in a press and push the gear into its hole good and har= d. Measure to be sure the land width is well below the minimum. (The width = of the rotor housings).The side seals and corner seals will keep the rotors= centered just fine.
 
If you premix oil and fuel, use a synthetic straight weight oil in the= sump. 40 wt unless you fly in Canada in the winter. And premix a name bran= d 2 cycle oil in the fuel. If you use the OMP, then use a straight weight r= acing oil in the sump. 40 weight again but a conventional oil not a synthet= ic.
 
Why the racing oil? Why a conventional? Why a synthetic?
 
A synthetic is by far the best lubricant, but most of them don't burn = very well. So, if you premix, its the best choice.
 
Racing oil has an additive that breaks up foam bubbles. Rotaries make = lots of foam by squirting a stream of oil into the spinning rotors. Racing = oils have lots of zinc compounds in them to prevent metal transfere.
 
We don't want any metal transfer.
 
So, the best sump oil when premixing is a synthetic racing oil. More a= ntiscuff, more anti foam and the best lubricant.
 
The 6,000 RPM you turn up an airplane engine is not the same as the 3,= 000 you might turn up a car engine. The street oil people hope you won't go= over 4,000 RPM. The racing oil people know you will go over 6,000 RPM. My = driver shifts at 9,600 RPM. Because the power curve has started down, not b= ecause the engine will not go higher without damage. 
 
In unlimited intake rules racing, the limit is 10,700 for short races = and 10,300 for long races. In drag racing they leave the line at over 11,00= 0 RPM.
 
You do of course have to keep oil in it.........
 
Lynn E. Hanover
 
And on a darker note:
 
Get a Doppler Carotid check. Cheap, fast, painless. My wife hounded me= into getting one and I resisted because I don't like doctors or hospitals = and I had no symptoms at all.  My Doppler showed a major blockage on t= he right side. I did a dye check. Plastick hose through the groin into the = Carotid to make high contrast movies in great detail from various angl= es. Not as bad as it sounds, but takes up a day of laying still in a bed wa= tching TV. The movie shows a 99% blockage. The Doctor canceles office hours= on Friday and does my Carotided. Cut open neck, cut open artery, peel out = 1/2 pound of plaque, sew up artery, staple up neck. Feels fine just a bit s= tiff the first day.
 
In the pictures it looks like a black soda straw with a one inch secti= on missing. I was one sneeze away from........
 
And I have big arteries. Smaller folks don't fare as well. So get it d= one. Any candy ass can get through the Doppler test. They just rub your nec= k with a sensor. Maybe a pretty girl will do yours. Takes 5 minutes. Do it.= So we won't have to help your widow sell your junk. 
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