Received-SPF: pass
 receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.221.192; envelope-from=cozy4pilot@gmail.com
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws;
        d=gmail.com; s=gamma;
        h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references
         :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding;
        b=gsmgqyfkcOKCW5AYEs7kvlRVhGPgqhzBGGPhEEBcgoVVl5tAj2jA9Kz7J1G6ABFsnn
         ijfVwhm2/kHbdD/DU2o3HkVjUl3nHjYU++PM2Gr1brMviY5MLftOgUpjmxW+zj3Wsezj
         s1uysS6eZyfaDxYBeiOVLbeD9hiGpZ8Bhm+UY=
Message-ID: <4AF6D46E.7060900@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 08 Nov 2009 09:23:42 -0500
From: Steve Brooks <cozy4pilot@gmail.com>
User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (Windows/20090812)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Battery Location[FlyRotary] Re: No start after
 engine replacement
References: <list-3961162@logan.com>
In-Reply-To: <list-3961162@logan.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


I measured the voltage on the engine power buss, and with the master 
switch on, it is 12.5 VDC.  While cranking the voltage drops to 10.2  
VDC.  I'm not sure what is normal, so I'm interested in any thoughts on 
that.

I switched the engine bus over to the front battery, and I was surprised 
to see that while cranking the voltage dropped to 9.5 volts.  It has a 
rather long wire running from the front to the rear of the aircraft, so 
perhaps I am dropping some voltage since it is powering the coils, 
injectors, fuel pump, etc., though for this test, I did not have the 
fuel pump turned on.

I know that it does maintain the engine already running, which is really 
what I intended with the emergency power bypass.

The cranking RPM appears to be normal, but I have no way to measure the 
actual RPM, that I can think of.  I did watch the EM-3 during cranking, 
but I did not see any RPM indication on the display.  It stayed at zero 
the whole time, but that may be normal.  I don't know.

Steve

Ed Anderson wrote:
> Ok, with a separate battery powering the EC2/3 then you wouldn't think
> cranking load shouldn't drop that source voltage but if interconnected - it
> may.   However, if the battery cranking the engine is low or dropping too
> much voltage, your engine may not be making the two revs at the required 150
> rpm.  However, in that case, I wouldn't think you would even get the first
> spark. 
>
> Just my 0.02
>
> Ed Anderson
>
> Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
>
> Matthews, NC
>
> eanderson@carolina.rr.com
>
> http://www.andersonee.com
>
> http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html
>
> http://www.flyrotary.com/
>
> http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW
>
> http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On
> Behalf Of Steve Brooks
> Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 7:35 AM
> To: Rotary motors in aircraft
> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Battery Location[FlyRotary] Re: No start after
> engine replacement
>
> Ed,
> That sounds like a good explanation for what I am seeing.  The battery 
> is about two years old.  It is an Odyssey PC680.  I have two batteries, 
> one sits on the rear spar and runs all of the engine stuff, and the 
> other one is in the nose an runs the avionics.  I have pretty heavy 
> cables running from the battery to the engine, 0 gauge as I recall, and 
> they are not very long.  Maybe 5 ft for the one hooked to the started, 
> and 3 ft for the one ground connected to the engine block.
>
> I will check the voltage as you suggested while cranking,  I also have 
> an emergency bypass switch where I cant power the engine critical buss 
> from the front battery, so that would also be a quick test, as I could 
> crank from the rear battery and power the EC-2 and coils from the front.
>
> I just installed the EC-3, so I'm not too familiar with it yet.  I will 
> see if it shows the RPM during cranking.  I'm not sure if it does or not.
>
> Steve
>
> Ed Anderson wrote:
>   
>> Steve, where is your battery located?  Engine compartment or nose??
>> Long leads can drop a lot of voltage under cranking current.  New engine
>>     
> may
>   
>> have  higher compression and  may take more juice than previous engine to
>> turn it over fast enough.  The fact that your old engine was also hard to
>> start makes me wonder.
>>
>> Ed
>>
>> Ed Anderson
>>
>> Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
>>
>> Matthews, NC
>>
>> eanderson@carolina.rr.com
>>
>> http://www.andersonee.com
>>
>> http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html
>>
>> http://www.flyrotary.com/
>>
>> http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW
>>
>> http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On
>> Behalf Of Steve Brooks
>> Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 4:46 PM
>> To: Rotary motors in aircraft
>> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: No start after engine replacement
>>
>> That's interesting.  I had not made any changes to mode 8, but it is 
>> certainly easy enough to reset it to default. 
>>
>> Steve
>>
>> Steven W. Boese wrote:
>>   
>>     
>>> Steve,
>>>
>>> It might be useful to reset the EC2 timing mode 8 setting to the default
>>>     
>>>       
>> setting. My EC2's do not produce consistent or strong sparks at RPM's
>>     
> less
>   
>> than about 1200 if the EC2 timing is advanced using mode 8.  The greater
>>     
> the
>   
>> advance, the weaker the spark.  Occasionally there will be a strong spark,
>> but the timing on these is very retarded.  With my EC2's, the most
>> consistent low RPM sparks are obtained at the most retarded mode 8
>>     
> setting,
>   
>> but the EC2 must be receiving CAS signals (engine running) in order to
>>     
> make
>   
>> this change.
>>   
>>     
>>> Steve Boese
>>>
>>> ________________________________________
>>> From: Rotary motors in aircraft [flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf
>>>       
> Of
>   
>>>     
>>>       
>> Steve Brooks [cozy4pilot@gmail.com]
>>   
>>     
>>> Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 1:09 PM
>>> To: Rotary motors in aircraft
>>> Subject: [FlyRotary] No start after engine replacement
>>>
>>> I replaced my original engine with another newly rebuilt block, and also
>>> added the EM-3 to the installation. The old engine was hard to start,
>>> and was also making a ticking noise when it did start, which didn't used
>>> to be there.
>>>
>>> After several failed attempts, and double checking the connections, I
>>> had a neighbor help me do some testing.  While the ignition test runs
>>> fine, when checking one of the plugs, it sparks when I initially crank
>>> the engine, and then stops.  Once in a while there will be another
>>> spark, but not very often.
>>>
>>> I reinstalled the original CAS and have the same issue.  I have double
>>> checked the CAS connections and checked them with an ohm meter to the
>>> connector on the EC-2 also. Everything seems to check out, yet I get
>>> only that initial spark. I have replaced the spark plugs with new ones,
>>> and whenever I pull one to check it, is is wet with fuel, which is no
>>> surprise.
>>>
>>> I am wondering if anyone has seen this type of problem, or if you have
>>> any suggestions.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Steve Brooks
>>> Cozy MKIV 13B turbo
>>>
>>> --
>>> Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
>>> Archive and UnSub:
>>>     
>>>       
>> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html
>>   
>>     
>>> --
>>> Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
>>> Archive and UnSub:
>>>     
>>>       
>> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html
>>   
>>     
>>>   
>>>     
>>>       
>> --
>> Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
>> Archive and UnSub:
>> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html
>>
>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
>>     
> signature
>   
>> database 3267 (20080714) __________
>>
>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>>
>> http://www.eset.com
>>
>>  
>>
>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
>>     
> signature
>   
>> database 3267 (20080714) __________
>>
>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>>
>> http://www.eset.com
>>  
>>
>>
>> --
>> Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
>> Archive and UnSub:
>>     
> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html
>   
>>   
>>     
>
>
> --
> Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
> Archive and UnSub:
> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html
>
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
> database 3267 (20080714) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
>
> --
> Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
> Archive and UnSub:   http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html
>
>