X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from exhub003-1.exch003intermedia.net ([207.5.74.28] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.16) with ESMTPS id 3905641 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Fri, 30 Oct 2009 10:48:29 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=207.5.74.28; envelope-from=jwhaley@datacast.com Received: from EXVMBX003-5.exch003intermedia.net ([207.5.74.45]) by exhub003-1.exch003intermedia.net ([207.5.74.28]) with mapi; Fri, 30 Oct 2009 07:47:52 -0700 From: Jeff Whaley To: Rotary motors in aircraft Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 07:49:22 -0700 Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Cooling report - was Tracy RV8 Thread-Topic: [FlyRotary] Cooling report - was Tracy RV8 Thread-Index: AcpZJPlTh14C18JRSoCtYLiVDH/T9wARHuNg Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_C03ABB0A7362B84BB53D544B3C305E0E0153666F98F9EXVMBX0035e_" MIME-Version: 1.0 --_000_C03ABB0A7362B84BB53D544B3C305E0E0153666F98F9EXVMBX0035e_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Rino This interesting, as I have what you had and moved away from what you have = now. In my case, the RX7 oil cooler was clearly not getting enough airflow - man= ometer proven. I replaced the RX7 oil cooler with 2 oil coolers in series (moved to cowl c= heek positions) 11x6.25x2.75 cores for 378 cu in - yours was 371 cu in. My water radiator is 605 cu in (22x5.5x5) - yours was 643 - very similar n= umbers. My airflow is 60 sq in for water radiator and 40 sq in (2 at 4x5) for the o= il coolers. Operating at slightly higher temps (50-60F) I have cold oil (1= 35F engine-in) and normal water temp (175F block) with a relatively slow ai= rplane 100-110 mph. Jeff (making air inlet restrictors for oil coolers - want ~160F) From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Beh= alf Of Al Gietzen Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 2:51 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Cooling report - was Tracy RV8 Rino; It seems very peculiar that you get better oil cooling with the stock RX7 o= il cooler than the Griffin with more than twice the core volume. Given the = low exit air temp with the Griffin cooler, one would conclude something wro= ng on the oil side - flow was seriously limited; air trapped in the cooler,= maybe very poor flow distribution; something. What is the core configurat= ion of the Griffin - fin density, tube configuration? Al Tracy, The following info. might be of interest to you, it has to do with my lates= t cooling system experience. I ordered 2 Griffin radiators and installed that, had to modify the air duc= ts A water radiator: no: GRI-2-58185-X CROSSFLOW - DUAL ROW 1-1/4" tubes core 18" X 13" X 2.75" 234 sq. in. 643 cu. in. A custom made oil radiator no: CX-27256-01 core 18" X 7.5" X 2.75" 135 sq. in. 371 cu. in. added a spall 10" fan (15 amp.) to the oil radiator Still not enough cooling, could not climb at full power for more than a few= minutes before the oil reached 220 deg. F. I had nore than eough water cooling, so I Built a oil/water heat exchanger = and added that in series with the Griffin oil rad. That did not work too well, not enough cooling. Removed the Griffin oil rad. and the fan. Replaced it with the original RX7 oil radiator core 17.5" X 4.5" X 2" 78 sq. in. 157 cu. in. Kept the oil/water heat exchanger in series with the oil rad. Air flow; Water rad air in 84 sq. in. air out 180 sq. in. Oil rad air in 40 sq. in. air out 54 sq. in. I think this last system works --- finally The outside air temp is presently between 30 and 40 deg. F. so it is hard f= or me to tell how it will work in the summer but the indications are good. = I had to plaster the front of the water rad. with duct tape to raise the = engine temp. and block the oil rad. air exit to reduce air flow. The oil r= ad. air flow is reduced to 12 sq. in. at the moment and not much air is flo= wing through the water rad. I have no water thermostat and no oil thermostat so I have to control the t= emp with the air flow. I need to build vanes to control the air flow, that is what I am working on= at the moment. I consider this installation much simpler and easier to maintain. The reas= on I figured that the griffin oil cooler was not working properly, the air = flow behind the rad. was not getting higher than abour 85 deg. F even when = the oil was at 220 de. F On the other hand the griffin water rad. seems to= work fine. Now the air flow temp behind both rads. goes to about 130+ deg= . F A photo of the present installation. Rino Lacombe Renesis powered Glass Goose ----- Original Message ----- From: Tracy Crook To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 1:19 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Tracy RV8 Cooler weather is helping now but still a work in progress. I'll write up = a report when the problem is fully solved. Tracy On Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 6:56 PM, > wrote: Hi Tracy Are you in a position to give us a further update on the cooling of the RV8= . Thanks Steve Izett Perth Australia ________________________________ The contents of this email are confidential and intended only for the named= recipients of this e-mail. If you have received this e-mail in error, you = are hereby notified that any use, reproduction, disclosure or distribution = or the information contained in this e-mail is prohibited. Please notify th= e sender immediately and then delete/destroy the e-mail and any printed cop= ies. All liability for viruses is excluded to the fullest extent of the law= . --_000_C03ABB0A7362B84BB53D544B3C305E0E0153666F98F9EXVMBX0035e_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Rino

This interesting, as I have what you had and moved away from what you have now.

In my case, the RX7 oil cooler was clearly not getting enoug= h airflow – manometer proven.

I replaced the RX7 oil cooler with 2 oil coolers in series (= moved to cowl cheek positions) 11x6.25x2.75 cores for 378 cu in – yours was= 371 cu in.

My water radiator is 605 cu in (22x5.5x5)  - yours was = 643 – very similar numbers.

My airflow is 60 sq in for water radiator and 40 sq in (2 at 4x5) for the oil coolers.  Operating at slightly higher temps (50-60F)= I have cold oil (135F engine-in) and normal water temp (175F block) with a relatively slow airplane 100-110 mph.

Jeff  (making air inlet restrictors for oil coolers = 211; want ~160F)

 

From: Rotary motors= in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Al Gietze= n
Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 2:51 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Cooling report - was Tracy RV8

 

Rino;

 

It seems very peculiar that you get better oil cooling with the stock RX7 oil cooler than the Griffin with more than twice the core volume. Given the low exit air temp with the Griffin cooler, one would conclude something wrong on the oil side - flow was seriously limited; air trapped i= n the cooler, maybe very poor flow distribution; something.  What is the core configuration of the Griffin – fin density, tube configuration?<= /span>

 

Al  

 

Tracy,

 

The following info. might be of interest = to you, it has to do with my latest cooling system experience.

 

I ordered 2 Griffin radiators= and installed that, had to modify the air ducts

A water radiator: no: GRI-2-58185-X

CROSSFLOW - DUAL ROW  1-1/4" tubes

core 18" X 13" X 2.75"    234 sq. in.     643 cu. in= .

 

A custom made oil radiator no= : CX-27256-01

core 18" X 7.5" X 2.75"  135 sq. in.     371 cu. in.

added a spall 10" fan (1= 5 amp.) to the oil radiator

 

Still not enough cooling, cou= ld not climb at full power for more than a few minutes before the oil reached = 220 deg. F.

I had nore than eough water cooling, so I= Built a oil/water heat exchanger and added that in se= ries with the Griffin oil rad.

That did not work too well, n= ot enough cooling.

Removed the Griffin oil rad. = and the fan.

Replaced it with the original= RX7 oil radiator

core 17.5" X 4.5" X 2"      78 sq. in.    &nb= sp; 157 cu. in.

Kept the oil/water heat excha= nger in series with the oil rad.

 

Air flow;

Water rad air in 84 sq. in.      air out 180 sq. in.

Oil rad air in 40 sq. in.     air out 54 sq. in.

 

I think this last system work= s --- finally

 

The outside air temp is prese= ntly between 30 and 40 deg. F. so it is hard for me to tell how it will work in = the summer but the indications are good.   I had to plaster the front= of the water rad. with duct tape to raise the engine temp. and block the oil r= ad. air exit to reduce air flow.  The oil rad. air flow is reduced to 12 s= q. in. at the moment and not much air is flowing through the water rad.=

 

I have no water thermostat an= d no oil thermostat so I have to control the temp with the air flow.=

I need to build vanes to cont= rol the air flow, that is what I am working on at the moment.=

 

I consider this installation = much simpler and easier to maintain.  The reason I figured that the griffin= oil cooler was not working properly, the air flow behind the rad. was not getting higher than abour 85 deg. F even when the oil was at 220 de. F = ; On the other hand the griffin water rad. seems to work fine.  Now the air flow temp behind both rads. goes to about 130+ deg. F

 

A photo of the present installation.

 

Rino Lacombe

Renesis powered Glass Goose

----- Original Message ----- =

From: Tracy Crook

Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 1:19 AM

Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Tracy RV8<= o:p>

 

Cooler weather is helping now but still a work in progress.  I'll write up a report when the problem is fully solved.
Tracy

On Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 6:5= 6 PM, <stevei@carey.asn.au> wrot= e:

Hi Tracy

Are you in a position to give us a further update on the cooling of the RV8= .


Thanks

Steve Izett
Perth Australia

The contents of this email are confidential and intended only for the named recipients of this e-mail. If = you have received this e-mail in error, you are hereby notified that any use, reproduction, disclosure or distribution or the information contained in th= is e-mail is prohibited. Please notify the sender immediately and then delete/destroy the e-mail and any printed copies. All liability for viruses= is excluded to the fullest extent of the law.

 

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