X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from fmailhost06.isp.att.net ([204.127.217.106] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.16) with ESMTP id 3890122 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 18 Oct 2009 14:53:05 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=204.127.217.106; envelope-from=keltro@att.net DKIM-Signature: v=1; q=dns/txt; d=att.net; s=dkim01; i=keltro@att.net; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1255891986; h=Content-Type: MIME-Version:In-Reply-To:Message-Id:Date:Subject:To:From; bh=g/ALHn tlTtX1/yoc4vRrXMxHZ76C0IL/TFDXO24NyBY=; b=NoJhwqVkh/dq62aRf35b18PKo uULBDwinXA8PUzuWbtxYailPzaDZtoUpucK01kRcaeQVbGT6zp6g47PfB16Hg== Received: from fwebmail17.isp.att.net ([204.127.221.117]) by isp.att.net (frfwmhc06) with SMTP id <20091018185231H0600ll3see>; Sun, 18 Oct 2009 18:52:31 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [204.127.221.117] Received: from [208.114.38.92] by fwebmail17.isp.att.net; Sun, 18 Oct 2009 18:52:30 +0000 From: "Kelly Troyer" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Subject: IVO Question (was) Static rpm Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 18:52:30 +0000 Message-Id: <101820091852.14714.4ADB63EE00080E350000397A22228869349B0A02D29B9B0EBF019D9B040A05@att.net> In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Mar 2 2009) X-Authenticated-Sender: a2VsdHJvQGF0dC5uZXQ= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_14714_1255891950_0" --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_14714_1255891950_0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Jim, Please repost the info for implementing the "Balance Meter" for visual indication of where the "IVO" prop is..............I have it somewhere but it seems that others on the list could use a leg up how to construct their own meter........... How many (2 or 3) blades are you currently using and what pitch (30-90 or 45-105)??............Also what rpm were you getting static and inflight ??.......... -- Kelly Troyer "Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 "Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold -------------- Original message from James Maher : -------------- sorry that last message got sent before I was able to finish my thought (damn laptop keyboard) :o( What I wanted to say was that the bidirectional ammeter will let you know immediately where the prop is as soon as you command the prop with the toggle switch due to the deflection of the ammeter. If you are close to the center of travel the initial current draw will be low while if you are close to the limit of travel the current will show higher. Jim --- On Sun, 10/18/09, James Maher wrote: From: James Maher Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: IVO Question (was) Static rpm To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Date: Sunday, October 18, 2009, 2:22 PM Stephen or Ben I'm not sure which to call you. Your comments on using an ammeter seem to suggest that you are using a single directional ammeter. In my system I use a bidirectional ammeter (balance meter) to not only indicate the magnitude of the change but also the direction. This --- On Sun, 10/18/09, stephen haas wrote: From: stephen haas Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: IVO Question (was) Static rpm To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Date: Sunday, October 18, 2009, 10:21 AM snip The ammeter idea for setting prop angle is at best suspect for the following reason. When traveling through the entire range the drive dogs that engage the planetary spool on the drive motor go from high stressed when in fine pitch to middle range where there is no stress at all to high stress at the full course pitch setting. As you move throughout the entire range the ammeter will show initially a high amp draw. then in the middle range almost no draw and then on the way to high pitch high draw again. Remembering where you are, ie am I on the range between fine and neutral, or nuetral to course ?? will be hard to predict with just an ammeter. I admit I do look at my ammeter gauge when traveling from any setting to fine pitch for landing and when the drive motor stalls or in the industry called "rotorlock" the amp gauge will show a big needle deflection. When I see that I know I am at the end range of the prop setting. YMMV and IMHO... Sorry for the long winded comments guys. Tailwinds Ben www.haaspowerair.com --- On Sun, 10/18/09, Kelly Troyer wrote: From: Kelly Troyer Subject: [FlyRotary] IVO Question (was) Static rpm To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Date: Sunday, October 18, 2009, 6:31 AM Stephen, Impressive !!..................Love the V-8 sound...............I presume you have both the "Ivo" 30 to 90 and 45 to 90 pitch blades..............With your hp I would also presume the 45 to 90 are needed to hold back all that hp.................I also have the electric "Ivo" (74", 30 to 90 pitch , 3 blades) for my estimated 180 hp 13B that has yet to be run................Several of the Rotary group are currently flying both ahead (and behind) the "Ivo" with varying blade lengths...............From your experience with both pitch blades and with the ability to overpower them at will with shear brute hp do you think that I will need the higher pitch 45 to 90 blades for my approx 180 hp 13B ??................. Thanks, -- Kelly Troyer "Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 "Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold -------------- Original message from stephen haas : -------------- Hi Guys... Just to add some data to the conversation. I run a Ivo prop and switch between two different blade designs. Both are 76" dia and both are set up for inflight adjustability. facts. my ignition has 4400 rpm chips in them. redrive ratio is 1.43-1. I usually run 4400 engine rpm on take off and climb. this gives a prop rpm of 3076 and at 50f temp that works out to tip speed of 695.5 and .922 mach. Prop pulls real strong at this rpm, anything over that and it starts to lay down. It appears my Ivo is pretty effecient till about .94 or so. I have not had the balls to pull the chips out and take it to 1.0 mach but... On this pass. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOF6eT6FRmY the motor was just under the chip rpm or about 4350 or so. temp was 26f, prop rpm around 3000, close to mach .93. The plane pulls good and as you can hear the motor makes alot more noise then the prop does. I have several guys tell me no way that I can run the prop that fast but proof is hard to deny. Ben www.haaspowerair.com --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_14714_1255891950_0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_14714_1255891950_1" --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_14714_1255891950_1 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Jim,
  Please repost the info for implementing the "Balance Meter" for= visual indication of
where the "IVO" prop is..............I have it somewhere but it seems = that others on the
list could use a leg up how to construct their own meter.........= ..  How many (2 or 3)
blades are you currently using and what pitch (30-90 or 45-105)??= ............Also what
rpm were you getting static and inflight ??.......... 
--
Kelly Troyer
"Dyke Delta"_1= 3B ROTARY Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifol= d



 
-------------- Original message from James Maher <delta11= xd@att.net>: --------------

sorry that last message got sent before I was able to finish my though= t (damn laptop keyboard) :o(

What I wanted to say was that the bidirectional ammeter will let y= ou know immediately where the prop is as soon as you command the prop with = the toggle switch due to the deflection of the ammeter.
If you are close to the center of travel the initial current draw will= be low while if you are close to the limit of travel the current will= show higher.
 
Jim
--- On Sun, 10/18/09, James Maher <delta11xd@att.net&g= t; wrote:

From: James Maher <delta11xd@att.net>
Su= bject: [FlyRotary] Re: IVO Question (was) Static rpm
To: "Rotary motors = in aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Date: Sunday, October 1= 8, 2009, 2:22 PM

Stephen or Ben I'm not sure which to call you.
Your comments on using an ammeter seem to suggest that you are using a= single directional ammeter.
In my system I use a bidirectional ammeter (balance meter) to not only= indicate the
magnitude of the change but also the direction.
This

--- On Sun, 10/18/09, stephen haas <admin@haaspo= werair.com> wrote:

From: stephen haas <admin@haaspowerair.com>=
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: IVO Question (was) Static rpm
To: "Rotary m= otors in aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Date: Sunday, Oct= ober 18, 2009, 10:21 AM

snip
 
The ammeter idea for setting prop angle is at best suspect for the fol= lowing reason. When traveling through the entire range the drive dogs that = engage the planetary spool on the drive motor go from high stressed wh= en in fine pitch to middle range where there is no stress at all to  h= igh stress at the full course pitch setting. As you move throughout the ent= ire range the ammeter will show initially a high amp draw. then in the midd= le range almost no draw and then on the way to high pitch high draw again. = Remembering where you are, ie am I on the range between fine and neutral, o= r nuetral to course ?? will be hard to predict with just an ammeter. I admi= t I do look at my ammeter gauge when traveling from any setting to fine pit= ch for landing and when the drive motor stalls or in the industry called "r= otorlock" the amp gauge will show a big needle deflection. When I see that = I know  I am at the end range of the prop setting. YMMV and IMHO... So= rry for the long winded comments guys.
 
Tailwinds
 
Ben
www.haaspowerair.com
--- On Sun, 10/18/09, Kelly Troyer <= keltro@att.net> wrote:

From: Kelly Troyer <keltro@att.net>
Subj= ect: [FlyRotary] IVO Question (was) Static rpm
To: "Rotary motors in air= craft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Date: Sunday, October 18, 200= 9, 6:31 AM

Stephen,
    Impressive !!..................Love the V-8 sound..= .............I presume you have both
the "Ivo" 30 to 90 and 45 to 90 pitch blades..............With your hp= I would also
presume the 45 to 90 are needed to hold back all that hp..............= ...I also have the
electric "Ivo" (74", 30 to 90 pitch , 3 blades) for my estimated 180 h= p 13B that has
yet to be run................Several of the Rotary group are currently= flying both ahead
(and behind) the "Ivo" with varying blade lengths...............From y= our experience
with both pitch blades and with the ability to overpower them at will = with shear brute
hp do you think that I will need the higher pitch 45 to 90 blades for = my approx 180
hp 13B ??.................
 
Thanks,
--
Kelly Troyer
"Dyke Delta"_1= 3B ROTARY Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifol= d
-------------- Original message from stephen haas <admin@= haaspowerair.com>: --------------

Hi Guys... Just to add some data to the conversation.
I run a Ivo prop and switch between two different blade designs. = Both are 76" dia and both are set up for inflight adjustability.
 
facts.
my ignition has 4400 rpm chips in them. redrive ratio is 1.43-1. I usu= ally run 4400 engine rpm on take off and climb. this gives a prop rpm of 30= 76 and at 50f temp that works out to tip speed of 695.5 and .922 mach. Prop= pulls real strong at this rpm, anything over that and it starts to lay dow= n. It appears my Ivo is pretty effecient till about .94 or so. I have not h= ad the balls to pull the chips out and take it to 1.0 mach but...=
 
 
the motor was just under the chip rpm or about 4350 or so. temp was 26= f,  prop rpm  around  3000, close to mach .93. The plane pul= ls good and as you can hear the motor makes alot more noise then the prop d= oes. I have several guys tell me no way that I can run the prop that fast b= ut proof is hard to deny.
 
Ben
=
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