X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from web83906.mail.sp1.yahoo.com ([69.147.92.107] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.16) with SMTP id 3890106 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 18 Oct 2009 14:31:49 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=69.147.92.107; envelope-from=delta11xd@att.net Received: (qmail 30542 invoked by uid 60001); 18 Oct 2009 18:31:06 -0000 Message-ID: <998670.24241.qm@web83906.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: Zirl8uYVM1kZ.4F13LG6fiRlNYY06GAo9PBlnj9ADu0xu9YWJ9YMBfRGr1S3P8IPB3NF7Dtw8Sjl6WqFZugYrmTAmGNGG7mMkhBgIeK4eTIkghhpYYuF.hPXizl5DJ1wcy3opP9tKJRUoDjjoL1njtGw5k2KL4Xiv0D4nDEp8vxc84KpcqL2y_K4nA.2jC13g5Z12D5BSbO14dgZec8T2ELhxJmtOiBZesj2uDKdO5HoUtqRxqQgK8XEBD5qkFkpkTfGpLj.ogoF6evPf4kR2OPJfpVtIqgSxWJ4ElFCBmZPNhcwENaE Received: from [75.58.118.135] by web83906.mail.sp1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 18 Oct 2009 11:31:05 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/7.0.14 YahooMailWebService/0.7.347.3 Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 11:31:05 -0700 (PDT) From: James Maher Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: IVO Question (was) Static rpm To: Rotary motors in aircraft In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1135512718-1255890665=:24241" --0-1135512718-1255890665=:24241 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable sorry that last message got sent before I was able to finish my thought (da= mn laptop keyboard) :o( What I wanted to say was that the bidirectional ammeter will let you know i= mmediately where the prop is as soon as you command the prop with the toggl= e switch due to the deflection of the ammeter. If you are close to the center of travel the initial current draw will be l= ow while=A0if you are close to the limit of travel the current will show hi= gher. =A0 Jim --- On Sun, 10/18/09, James Maher wrote: From: James Maher Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: IVO Question (was) Static rpm To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Date: Sunday, October 18, 2009, 2:22 PM Stephen or Ben I'm not sure which to call you. Your comments on using an ammeter seem to suggest that you are using a sing= le directional ammeter. In my system I use a bidirectional ammeter (balance meter) to not only indi= cate the magnitude of the change but also the direction. This=20 --- On Sun, 10/18/09, stephen haas wrote: From: stephen haas Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: IVO Question (was) Static rpm To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Date: Sunday, October 18, 2009, 10:21 AM snip =A0 The ammeter idea for setting prop angle is at best suspect for the followin= g reason. When traveling through the entire range the drive dogs that engag= e the planetary spool on the drive motor go from=A0high stressed when in fi= ne pitch to middle range where there is no stress at all to =A0high stress = at the full course pitch setting. As you move throughout the entire range t= he ammeter will show initially a high amp draw. then in the middle range al= most no draw and then on the way to high pitch high draw again. Remembering= where you are, ie am I on the range between fine and neutral, or nuetral t= o course ?? will be hard to predict with just an ammeter. I admit I do look= at my ammeter gauge when traveling from any setting to fine pitch for land= ing and when the drive motor stalls or in the industry called "rotorlock" t= he amp gauge will show a big needle deflection. When I see that I know=A0 I= am at the end range of the prop setting. YMMV and IMHO... Sorry for the long winded comments guys. =A0 Tailwinds =A0 Ben www.haaspowerair.com --- On Sun, 10/18/09, Kelly Troyer wrote: From: Kelly Troyer Subject: [FlyRotary] IVO Question (was) Static rpm To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Date: Sunday, October 18, 2009, 6:31 AM Stephen, =A0=A0=A0 Impressive !!..................Love the V-8 sound...............I= presume you have both the "Ivo" 30 to 90 and 45 to 90 pitch blades..............With your hp I wo= uld also presume the 45 to 90 are needed to hold back all that hp.................I = also have the electric "Ivo" (74", 30 to 90 pitch , 3 blades) for my estimated 180 hp 13B= that has yet to be run................Several of the Rotary group are currently flyi= ng both ahead (and behind) the "Ivo" with varying blade lengths...............From your e= xperience with both pitch blades and with the ability to overpower them at will with = shear brute hp do you think that I will need the higher pitch 45 to 90 blades for my ap= prox 180 hp 13B ??................. =A0 Thanks, -- Kelly Troyer=20 "Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine=20 "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2=20 "Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold=20 -------------- Original message from stephen haas := --------------=20 Hi Guys... Just to add some data to the conversation. I run a Ivo prop and switch between two different blade designs.=A0 Both ar= e 76" dia and both are set up for inflight adjustability.=20 =A0 facts. my ignition has 4400 rpm chips in them. redrive ratio is 1.43-1. I usually = run 4400 engine rpm on take off and climb. this gives a prop rpm of 3076 an= d at 50f temp that works out to tip speed of 695.5 and .922 mach. Prop pull= s real strong at this rpm, anything over that and it starts to lay down. It= appears my Ivo is pretty effecient till about .94 or so. I have not had th= e balls to pull the chips out and=A0take it=A0to 1.0 mach but... =A0 On this pass. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DAOF6eT6FRmY =A0 the motor was just under the chip rpm or about 4350 or so. temp was 26f,=A0= prop rpm=A0 around=A0 3000, close to mach .93. The plane pulls good and as= you can hear the motor makes alot more noise then the prop does. I have se= veral guys tell me no way that I can run the prop that fast but proof is ha= rd to deny. =A0 Ben www.haaspowerair.com --0-1135512718-1255890665=:24241 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
sorry that last message got sent before = I was able to finish my thought (damn laptop keyboard) :o(

What I wanted to say was that the bidirectional ammeter will let y= ou know immediately where the prop is as soon as you command the prop with = the toggle switch due to the deflection of the ammeter.
If you are close to the center of travel the initial current draw will= be low while if you are close to the limit of travel the current will= show higher.
 
Jim
--- On Sun, 10/18/09, James Maher <delta11xd@att.net&g= t; wrote:

From: James Maher <delta11xd@att.net>
Su= bject: [FlyRotary] Re: IVO Question (was) Static rpm
To: "Rotary motors = in aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Date: Sunday, October 1= 8, 2009, 2:22 PM

Stephen or Ben I'm not sure which to call you.
Your comments on using an ammeter seem to suggest that you are using a= single directional ammeter.
In my system I use a bidirectional ammeter (balance meter) to not only= indicate the
magnitude of the change but also the direction.
This

--- On Sun, 10/18/09, stephen haas <admin@haaspo= werair.com> wrote:

From: stephen haas <admin@haaspowerair.com>=
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: IVO Question (was) Static rpm
To: "Rotary m= otors in aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Date: Sunday, Oct= ober 18, 2009, 10:21 AM

snip
 
The ammeter idea for setting prop angle is at best suspect for the fol= lowing reason. When traveling through the entire range the drive dogs that = engage the planetary spool on the drive motor go from high stressed wh= en in fine pitch to middle range where there is no stress at all to  h= igh stress at the full course pitch setting. As you move throughout the ent= ire range the ammeter will show initially a high amp draw. then in the midd= le range almost no draw and then on the way to high pitch high draw again. = Remembering where you are, ie am I on the range between fine and neutral, o= r nuetral to course ?? will be hard to predict with just an ammeter. I admi= t I do look at my ammeter gauge when traveling from any setting to fine pit= ch for landing and when the drive motor stalls or in the industry called "r= otorlock" the amp gauge will show a big needle deflection. When I see that = I know  I am at the end range of the prop setting. YMMV and IMHO... Sorry for the long winded comments guys.
 
Tailwinds
 
Ben
www.haaspowerair.com
--- On Sun, 10/18/09, Kelly Troyer <= keltro@att.net> wrote:

From: Kelly Troyer <keltro@att.net>
Subj= ect: [FlyRotary] IVO Question (was) Static rpm
To: "Rotary motors in air= craft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Date: Sunday, October 18, 200= 9, 6:31 AM

Stephen,
    Impressive !!..................Love the V-8 sound..= .............I presume you have both
the "Ivo" 30 to 90 and 45 to 90 pitch blades..............With your hp= I would also
presume the 45 to 90 are needed to hold back all that hp..............= ...I also have the
electric "Ivo" (74", 30 to 90 pitch , 3 blades) for my estimated 180 h= p 13B that has
yet to be run................Several of the Rotary group are currently= flying both ahead
(and behind) the "Ivo" with varying blade lengths...............From y= our experience
with both pitch blades and with the ability to overpower them at will = with shear brute
hp do you think that I will need the higher pitch 45 to 90 blades for = my approx 180
hp 13B ??.................
 
Thanks,
--
Kelly Troyer
"Dyke Delta"_1= 3B ROTARY Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifol= d
-------------- Original message from stephen haas <admin@= haaspowerair.com>: --------------

Hi Guys... Just to add some data to the conversation.
I run a Ivo prop and switch between two different blade designs. = Both are 76" dia and both are set up for inflight adjustability.
 
facts.
my ignition has 4400 rpm chips in them. redrive ratio is 1.43-1. I usu= ally run 4400 engine rpm on take off and climb. this gives a prop rpm of 30= 76 and at 50f temp that works out to tip speed of 695.5 and .922 mach. Prop= pulls real strong at this rpm, anything over that and it starts to lay dow= n. It appears my Ivo is pretty effecient till about .94 or so. I have not h= ad the balls to pull the chips out and take it to 1.0 mach but...=
 
 
the motor was just under the chip rpm or about 4350 or so. temp was 26= f,  prop rpm  around  3000, close to mach .93. The plane pul= ls good and as you can hear the motor makes alot more noise then the prop d= oes. I have several guys tell me no way that I can run the prop that fast b= ut proof is hard to deny.
 
Ben
=
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