X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from fed1rmmtao102.cox.net ([68.230.241.44] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.16) with ESMTP id 3888819 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Fri, 16 Oct 2009 20:20:15 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=68.230.241.44; envelope-from=alventures@cox.net Received: from fed1rmimpo03.cox.net ([70.169.32.75]) by fed1rmmtao102.cox.net (InterMail vM.8.00.01.00 201-2244-105-20090324) with ESMTP id <20091017001941.MTEI12000.fed1rmmtao102.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> for ; Fri, 16 Oct 2009 20:19:41 -0400 Received: from BigAl ([72.192.133.78]) by fed1rmimpo03.cox.net with bizsmtp id tcKh1c00F1hf1Cg04cKhHL; Fri, 16 Oct 2009 20:19:41 -0400 X-VR-Score: -100.00 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=eUYrJpLGLCIA:10 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=Vt7FZHyO_zceBGcZCVsA:9 a=_tfOh5XGsZcY7-iA0kkA:7 a=ZZMnGGO-YGEXKiJRc2tmQd3zR98A:4 a=EzXvWhQp4_cA:10 a=alj_wpf3xl5qXmPx:21 a=lgSMbLLcDdbPUgeX:21 a=3fOK17FzEgp4y8AuDhMA:9 a=NQYrj45m_NW_d6n4aUcA:7 a=DAmzcXKhKiKTb3Eq7SkAgsOF1xMA:4 X-CM-Score: 0.00 From: "Al Gietzen" To: "'Rotary motors in aircraft'" Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: Stoich A/F Ratio?? : [FlyRotary] Re: where's the missing power? Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 17:20:19 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000E_01CA4E84.EF5DC530" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6856 Importance: Normal Thread-Index: AcpOuCer8ziYFXifSleqnJ6f6HjWCQADxFEg In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01CA4E84.EF5DC530 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 =20 -----Original Message----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Bill Bradburry Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 3:26 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Stoich A/F Ratio?? : [FlyRotary] Re: where's = the missing power? =20 Steve, The values that are 0 are in the column for manifold pressure. The = column for the MAP correction has numbers like you are describing. =20 Wait a minute. I'm confused. I've been talking about the correction = values in the bins - I thought those were zeros you were concerned with. There = is a certain value of MAP that corresponds to each rpm. If you look at = this in track mode with the engine running it may make a lot more sense. Meanwhile; I better get out of this discussion; we don't seem to be on = the same page. =20 Al=20 Plus numbers for above the mid point and negative numbers for below the = mid point. But without manifold pressure or RPM numbers, I don't understand = how the computer can figure out which bin to select. With all them 0, it = would be some kind of random unless the program has a way of attaching a bin = to a bin. Bill B=20 =20 _____ =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of sboese Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 7:16 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Stoich A/F Ratio?? : [FlyRotary] Re: where's = the missing power? Ed & Bill, =20 If I understand correctly from discussion with Tracy, the default value = of 128 for a MAP table value is what you would read directly from the data stream. The 128 is reported as zero on the EM3 with positive values indicating enrichment and negative values indicating leaning. Values of zero on the EM3 are values which have not been changed from the default. =20 Steve =20 =20 -----Original Message----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Ed Anderson Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 4:49 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Stoich A/F Ratio?? : [FlyRotary] Re: where's = the missing power? =20 Ok, I understand now Bill. I think Al answered your question on how far from 14.7:1 to 9:1 on his controller of his 3 rotor - That's the only information I am aware of about how much twisting of the manual mixture control it may take. I can simply state that with the mixture Knob at = 3:00 its too much fuel for my N/A turbo block - so I would say Al's = information sounds reasonable to me. =20 Unless Tracy has really changed things with the EC3, there are NO = manifold pressure values in any bins (columns of the table) - the manifold = pressure (when used) is converted into a "bin" pointer which points to the appropriate bin (numbered from 0 - 128) for that corresponding manifold pressure). That "bin" selected by the manifold pressure value of the = engine then contains a fuel factor value represented by the value (height) of = the bar in that bin. I believe Tracy's default value is 128 which = theoretically would give a 14.7:1 air/fuel ratio. Going above that value enriches the mixture and below leans it. =20 IF there are zeros for the values of any of the bins then that says = there is no Map correction Table (MCT) correction factor used for that bin. . = So if the values of zero are valid, I would assume that for those regions = the fuel needed must be derived solely from some other parameter - like RPM = with the manifold pressure value only acting as a switch (above below 13Hg = for example) But, if that is indeed the case then I'm still a bit surprised there are = no MCT values for rpm. =20 =20 =20 There is the possibility that somehow the MCT values for those bins were = set to zero accidentally, but as you so rightly surmised, only Tracy can = answer the question you have. =20 Ed =20 ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01CA4E84.EF5DC530 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

 

 

-----Original = Message-----
From: Rotary motors in = aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Bill Bradburry
Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 3:26 = PM
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Stoich A/F Ratio?? : [FlyRotary] Re: where's the missing = power?

 

Steve,

The values that are 0 are in the column for = manifold pressure.  The column for the MAP correction has numbers like you = are describing. 

Wait a minute.  I’m confused.  I’ve been talking about the correction values in = the bins – I thought those were zeros you were concerned with.  There = is a certain value of MAP that corresponds to each rpm.  If you look at this in = track mode with the engine running it may make a lot more = sense.

Meanwhile; I better get out of = this discussion; we don’t seem to be on the same = page.

 

Al

Plus numbers for above the mid point and = negative numbers for below the mid point.  But without manifold pressure or = RPM numbers, I don’t understand how the computer can figure out which = bin to select.  With all them 0, it would be some kind of random unless = the program has a way of attaching a bin to a bin.

Bill B 

 

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of sboese
Sent: Friday, October 16, = 2009 7:16 PM
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Stoich A/F Ratio?? : [FlyRotary] Re: where's the missing = power?

Ed & = Bill,

 

If I understand = correctly from discussion with Tracy, the default value of 128 for a MAP table = value is what you would read directly from the data stream.  The 128 is = reported as zero on the EM3 with positive values indicating enrichment and negative = values indicating leaning.  Values of zero on the EM3 are values which have not been = changed from the default.

 

Steve

 

 

-----Original = Message-----
From: Rotary motors in = aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Ed Anderson
Sent: Friday, October 16, = 2009 4:49 PM
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Stoich A/F Ratio?? : [FlyRotary] Re: where's the missing = power?

 

Ok, I understand now Bill.  I think Al answered your question on how far = from 14.7:1 to 9:1 on his controller of his 3 rotor – That’s the = only information I am aware of about how much twisting of the manual mixture = control it may take.  I can simply state that with the mixture Knob at 3:00 = its too much fuel for my N/A turbo block – so I would say Al’s information sounds reasonable to me.

 

Unless Tracy has really changed things with the EC3, there are NO manifold = pressure values in any bins (columns of the table) – the manifold pressure = (when used) is converted into a “bin”  pointer which points = to the appropriate bin (numbered from 0 – 128) for that corresponding = manifold pressure).  That “bin” selected by the manifold = pressure value of the engine then contains a fuel factor value represented by the value (height) of the bar in that bin.  I believe Tracy’s default = value is 128 which theoretically would give a 14.7:1 air/fuel ratio.  Going = above that value enriches the mixture and below leans it.

 

 IF there are zeros for the values  of any of the bins then that says = there is no Map correction Table (MCT) correction factor used for that bin. = .  So if the values of zero are valid,  I would assume that for those = regions the fuel needed must be derived solely from some other parameter – = like RPM with the manifold pressure value only acting as a switch (above = below 13Hg for example)

But, if that is indeed the case then I’m still a bit surprised there are = no MCT values for rpm. 

 

 

There is the possibility that somehow the MCT values for those bins were set to = zero accidentally, but as you so rightly surmised, only Tracy can answer the question you have.

 

Ed<= /p>

 

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