X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from fed1rmmtao107.cox.net ([68.230.241.39] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.16) with ESMTP id 3888809 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Fri, 16 Oct 2009 20:13:40 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=68.230.241.39; envelope-from=alventures@cox.net Received: from fed1rmimpo01.cox.net ([70.169.32.71]) by fed1rmmtao107.cox.net (InterMail vM.8.00.01.00 201-2244-105-20090324) with ESMTP id <20091017001306.VZGL21470.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> for ; Fri, 16 Oct 2009 20:13:06 -0400 Received: from BigAl ([72.192.133.78]) by fed1rmimpo01.cox.net with bizsmtp id tcD61c00Q1hf1Cg03cD6WJ; Fri, 16 Oct 2009 20:13:06 -0400 X-VR-Score: -50.00 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=eUYrJpLGLCIA:10 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=7-qKOp4NNlnhzsBo5QsA:9 a=H7UrQ_jqpu0eCiBs4a4A:7 a=3gDxJCZleuQtf_2XJPdqFiuMapAA:4 a=EzXvWhQp4_cA:10 a=MrLHmdTI8tUlnSC6:21 a=JcHAJ7lHuyM1xejf:21 a=aRXKmx4MMB9CRVT1B18A:9 a=wcL2w2cIvKLqOTH0k30A:7 a=OLwSDVeJ1vXctUCfOsPVCLLx-dIA:4 X-CM-Score: 0.00 From: "Al Gietzen" To: "'Rotary motors in aircraft'" Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: Stoich A/F Ratio?? : [FlyRotary] Re: where's the missing power? Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 17:13:44 -0800 Message-ID: <03226A98AE8E4583ADFE804C77E3A492@BigAl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000A_01CA4E84.03F4B9A0" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6856 Importance: Normal Thread-Index: AcpOtyiQWdtmoOtTQqOMoxfaC4rgxwADb1Qg In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01CA4E84.03F4B9A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 =20 -----Original Message----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Bill Bradburry Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 3:19 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Stoich A/F Ratio?? : [FlyRotary] Re: where's = the missing power? =20 Thanks Al and Ed! Al, does that mean that you have values in the bins located between = about 17 and 48? Yes. 0 is the default value; so when you get your unit, all the values = will be 0. When you tune your engine is this regime; those values will go + = or - as needed to a max of 127 each way. If the numbers are at the extreme, you'll need to adjust mode 3. =20 Do you have the EM2 or EM3? Put the thing in auto tune mode, and slowly advance the throttle from idle on up. Each bin number will appear in = turn and you will see which bin it is using, and what the correction value = is. Keep it on each bin number until the correction value is stable. = Actually I found autotune made it a bit too lean down in the idle range (up to = about 1500 - 1700 rpm), so I set those manually.=20 =20 I think it tunes it to stoichometric; so if you do this with the mixture knob at 12:00; max power mixture may be at about 1:30 or 2:00, and lean cruise over toward 10:30.=20 =20 Ed, with the bins showing 0, I don't know how you would be certain which = bin to correct if the rpm dropped and the engine started to run rough. You would have no way of knowing which bin was screwed up. Hopefully, Tracy will return soon and can clear this up. =20 Bill B =20 =20 _____ =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Al Gietzen Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 7:34 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Stoich A/F Ratio?? : [FlyRotary] Re: where's = the missing power? My question was: if the MAP table gives 14.7 A/F ratio with the manual = knob in the 12:00 oclock position, what would be the most likely A/F ratio = with the knob all the way clockwise? Does it have the capability of = richening it to 12.65?? The short answer is "Yes, and beyond". =20 Now I have more questions. I went over and copied down the information = in my MAP table today. I was surprised to learn that the manifold = pressures for all addresses from 0 to 63 were set to Zero. I expected to find = actual manifold pressures in there. =20 My understanding is that in that range of the table it chooses the table address based on rpm. Once you tune it in that range the correction = numbers will likely not be 0.0. For my setup it never uses cells below about = 17-18, or above about 47-48 where the rpm and MAP fall outside the range; so = those cells are 0. =20 I also discovered that staging was not set. At least, there is never an astrick showing up above the V in Volt. I assume I can not change the staging unless the engine is running??? All this was done with the = engine not running if that matters for any of the data. You will not see an * unless you are in track mode with the engine = running. The stage point can only be set with the engine running, and at the MAP where you want it to stage. =20 My Renesis engine has not been torn down, so it still has the factory nominal timing setting. Does anyone know what this setting is?? The = timing adjustment setting on the EC-2 is set to Zero. Due to some of the = recent discussions on timing, I am thinking that may have been a factor in not making as much power as others when static running. I have been only = able to get 53-5400 rpm, while others could get over 6000. Set the timing as instructed in the EC2 manual. Assuming you have = 2.85:1 redrive you should have over 6000 static rpm (I'd say closer to 7000); = if 2.17:1 you're about right.=20 =20 Hope this helps, =20 Al G =20 =20 ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01CA4E84.03F4B9A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

 

 

-----Original = Message-----
From: Rotary motors in = aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Bill Bradburry
Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 3:19 = PM
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Stoich A/F Ratio?? : [FlyRotary] Re: where's the missing = power?

 

Thanks Al and Ed!

Al, does that mean that you have values in = the bins located between about 17 and 48?

Yes.  0 is the default = value; so when you get your unit, all the values will be 0.  When you tune = your engine is this regime; those values will go + or – as needed to a = max of 127 each way.  If the numbers are at the extreme, you’ll need = to adjust mode 3.

 

Do you have the EM2 or EM3? =  Put the thing in auto tune mode, and slowly advance the throttle from idle = on up.  Each bin number will appear in turn and you will see which bin it is using, = and what the correction value is.  Keep it on each bin number until the = correction value is stable.  Actually I found autotune made it a bit too lean = down in the idle range (up to about 1500 – 1700 rpm), so I set those = manually.

 

I think it tunes it to = stoichometric; so if you do this with the mixture knob at 12:00; max power = mixture may be at about 1:30 or 2:00, and lean cruise over toward 10:30. =

 

Ed, with the bins showing 0, I don’t = know how you would be certain which bin to correct if the rpm dropped and the = engine started to run rough.  You would have no way of knowing which bin = was screwed up.

Hopefully, Tracy will return soon and can = clear this up.

 

Bill B

 

 

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Al Gietzen
Sent: Friday, October 16, = 2009 7:34 PM
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Stoich A/F Ratio?? : [FlyRotary] Re: where's the missing = power?

My question was:  if the MAP table gives = 14.7 A/F ratio with the manual knob in the 12:00 oclock position, what would be = the most likely A/F ratio with the knob all the way clockwise?  Does it have = the capability of richening it to 12.65??

The short answer is “Yes, and beyond”.

 

Now I have more questions.  I went over = and copied down the information in my MAP table today.  I was surprised = to learn that the manifold pressures for all addresses from 0 to 63 were = set to Zero.  I expected to find actual manifold pressures in there.  =

My understanding is that in that range of the table it chooses the table = address based on rpm.  Once you tune it in that range the correction = numbers will likely not be 0.0.  For my setup it never uses cells below about = 17-18, or above about 47-48 where the rpm and MAP fall outside the range; so those = cells are 0.

 

I also discovered that staging was not = set.  At least, there is never an astrick showing up above the V in Volt.  I = assume I can not change the staging unless the engine is running???   = All this was done with the engine not running if that matters for any of the = data.

You will not see an * unless you are in track mode with the engine = running.  The stage point can only be set with the engine running, and at the MAP = where you want it to stage.

 

My Renesis engine has not been torn down, so = it still has the factory nominal timing setting.  Does anyone know what this setting is??  The timing adjustment setting on the EC-2 is set to Zero.  Due to some of the recent discussions on timing, I am = thinking that may have been a factor in not making as much power as others when static running.  I have been only able to get 53-5400 rpm, while others = could get over 6000.

Set the timing as instructed in the EC2 manual.  Assuming you have = 2.85:1 redrive you should have over 6000 static rpm (I’d say closer to = 7000); if 2.17:1 you’re about right.

 

Hope this helps,

 

Al = G

 

 

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