X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from fmailhost04.isp.att.net ([207.115.11.54] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.16) with ESMTP id 3882586 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 11 Oct 2009 17:19:25 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=207.115.11.54; envelope-from=bbradburry@bellsouth.net Received: from desktop (adsl-157-211-223.mco.bellsouth.net[70.157.211.223]) by isp.att.net (frfwmhc04) with SMTP id <20091011211850H0400ictuje>; Sun, 11 Oct 2009 21:18:50 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [70.157.211.223] From: "Bill Bradburry" To: "'Rotary motors in aircraft'" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] FlyRotary] Re: where's the missing power? Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2009 17:19:00 -0400 Message-ID: <208026EC98A64B7E9FF36D75987D3650@Desktop> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001E_01CA4A96.ECA9EEF0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: AcpKsQsjsEc9MQTJTSq6LMtFHG8n4QAB1S1w X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6002.18005 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001E_01CA4A96.ECA9EEF0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lynn, What is a "Dutch clamp"? Bill B _____ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Lynn Hanover Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2009 4:25 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] FlyRotary] Re: where's the missing power? Lynn, I realize that the Drummond dyno exhaust system is sized to get maximum power at much higher rpm (9000+) than we use but can you give us approximate tubing diameters and lengths of both the primaries and collector of the Drummond system then pulling from your many years of "Real World Experience" recommend tubing diameters and lengths sized for our aircraft systems (perhaps one for the 2.17 re-drive that spends most of the time at 5000 to 5500 rpm then one for the 2.85 re-drive typically used at 6000 to 6500 rpm).............. Thanks, -- Kelly Troyer "Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 "Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold The goal will be the scavenge effect and not actually pumping up torque at lower RPM. So any system that does not screw up the scavenge effect should be a huge improvement. So one system design should work fine for either reduction ratio. This all conjecture since I no longer have a dyno. But, I would use 1/7/8" ID primaries of 18" to 22" into a long collector maybe 8" ending at 2 1/4". Then a smooth transition to a flex pipe (to allow for engine moving in the mounts) then to the end of a fixed down tube of 2 3/4" clamped to an engine mount tube with Dutch clamps. A streamlining cuff over the down tube with air holes for cooling. Then into a Bomb style muffler with the cooling tube through the center as seen here on the news group. I would use crossed fish tails so as to look like ordnance. With air along the outside and through the centerline, plus the distance from the engine, muffler failures would be reduced. Plus there would be less heat inside the cowl. No dripping liquids would be set alight. More room for other items to fit. If it does fall apart the worst that could happen is that it falls off, never to be seen again. Just don't put your tail number on it. I would have the cooling center tube turned through the centerline to disconnect the cooling tube from the exhaust note. The important part of the build is to get the primary pipes exactly the same length to the collector. I can do drawings if you like. Lynn E. Hanover ------=_NextPart_000_001E_01CA4A96.ECA9EEF0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Lynn,

What is a “Dutch = clamp”?

Bill B 

 


From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Lynn Hanover
Sent: Sunday, October 11, = 2009 4:25 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] = FlyRotary] Re: where's the missing power?

Lynn,

   I realize that the Drummond dyno exhaust system is = sized to get maximum power at much

higher rpm (9000+) than we use but can you give us approximate = tubing diameters and lengths

of both the primaries and collector of the Drummond system then = pulling from your many years

of "Real World Experience" recommend  tubing = diameters and lengths sized for our aircraft

systems (perhaps one for the 2.17 re-drive that spends most of = the time at 5000 to 5500 rpm

then one for the 2.85 re-drive typically used at 6000 to 6500 rpm)..............

 

Thanks,

--
Kelly Troyer
"Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold

 

The goal will be the scavenge effect and not actually pumping up = torque at lower RPM. So any system that does not screw up the scavenge effect = should be a huge improvement. So one system design should work fine for either reduction ratio.

 

This all conjecture since I no longer have a dyno. But, I would = use 1/7/8" ID primaries of 18" to 22"  into a long = collector maybe 8" ending at 2 1/4". Then a smooth transition to a flex = pipe (to allow for engine moving in the mounts) then to the end of a fixed = down tube of 2 3/4" clamped to an engine mount tube with Dutch = clamps. 

 

A streamlining cuff over the down tube with air holes for = cooling. Then into a Bomb style muffler with the cooling tube through the center as = seen here on the news group. I would use crossed fish tails so as to look like = ordnance. With air along the outside and through the centerline, plus the distance = from the engine, muffler failures would be reduced. Plus there would be less heat = inside the cowl. No dripping liquids would be set alight. More room for other = items to fit. 

 

If it does fall apart the worst that could happen is that it = falls off, never to be seen again. Just don't put your tail number on it. I would = have the cooling center tube turned through the centerline to disconnect the = cooling tube from the exhaust note.  

 

The important part of the build is to get the primary pipes = exactly the same length to the collector.

 

I can do drawings if you like.

 

Lynn E. Hanover

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