X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com
Return-Path: <lehanover@gmail.com>
Received: from mail-fx0-f213.google.com ([209.85.220.213] verified)
  by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.16)
  with ESMTP id 3882562 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 11 Oct 2009 16:25:56 -0400
Received-SPF: pass
 receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.220.213; envelope-from=lehanover@gmail.com
Received: by fxm9 with SMTP id 9so7681679fxm.1
        for <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>; Sun, 11 Oct 2009 13:25:20 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
        d=gmail.com; s=gamma;
        h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:date:message-id:subject
         :from:to:content-type;
        bh=d72om271hNb2yI1IaJln4M56gIsdkoSzC8njGlrI3n8=;
        b=iMp/cJHfBE9zEjYeZAHuhDzhfj7JpZXy8BLQRhltUcRAOycf1yxeYjwd2jd1uInVb8
         RdD5wkR8K+u8O+gqI4cWLEM11HgFhn97uFQJRb931LI9/loiv6o59bqBPz8ab3MjRsWL
         sqhyBfORG5xo9fg28iFRxQ3lCtVBLeaJSQvMs=
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws;
        d=gmail.com; s=gamma;
        h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type;
        b=eh59cJmKjznpQHS+QYwgHVvtsZGnG9hqS3rXk8rrUC8RXvgIJGwZ0XuDADQQvhHt4y
         SQDNcneLyAU3NXRFSni6dHCM0z9jHMEyk09/oomndF1yTksRbf83/sqRgt4aHtOfkXqM
         hdjn7p4h9n0udRtzREbnmiCQXg5FVgXMMjNsg=
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: by 10.204.8.13 with SMTP id f13mr4408443bkf.150.1255292720052; Sun, 
	11 Oct 2009 13:25:20 -0700 (PDT)
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2009 16:25:20 -0400
Message-ID: <1ab24f410910111325g2a7e56e9te7a647d3d4f3880f@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: FlyRotary] Re: where's the missing power?
From: Lynn Hanover <lehanover@gmail.com>
To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0cd30d76aaf8860475ae9c7a

--000e0cd30d76aaf8860475ae9c7a
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Lynn,
   I realize that the Drummond dyno exhaust system is sized to get maximum
power at much
higher rpm (9000+) than we use but can you give us approximate tubing
diameters and lengths
of both the primaries and collector of the Drummond system then pulling from
your many years
of "Real World Experience" recommend  tubing diameters and lengths sized for
our aircraft
systems (perhaps one for the 2.17 re-drive that spends most of the time at
5000 to 5500 rpm
then one for the 2.85 re-drive typically used at 6000 to 6500
rpm)..............

Thanks,
--
Kelly Troyer
"Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold

The goal will be the scavenge effect and not actually pumping up torque at
lower RPM. So any system that does not screw up the scavenge effect should
be a huge improvement. So one system design should work fine for either
reduction ratio.

This all conjecture since I no longer have a dyno. But, I would use 1/7/8"
ID primaries of 18" to 22"  into a long collector maybe 8" ending at 2 1/4".
Then a smooth transition to a flex pipe (to allow for engine moving in the
mounts) then to the end of a fixed down tube of 2 3/4" clamped to an engine
mount tube with Dutch clamps.

A streamlining cuff over the down tube with air holes for cooling. Then into
a Bomb style muffler with the cooling tube through the center as seen here
on the news group. I would use crossed fish tails so as to look like
ordnance. With air along the outside and through the centerline, plus the
distance from the engine, muffler failures would be reduced. Plus there
would be less heat inside the cowl. No dripping liquids would be set alight.
More room for other items to fit.

If it does fall apart the worst that could happen is that it falls off,
never to be seen again. Just don't put your tail number on it. I would have
the cooling center tube turned through the centerline to disconnect the
cooling tube from the exhaust note.

The important part of the build is to get the primary pipes exactly the same
length to the collector.

I can do drawings if you like.

Lynn E. Hanover

--000e0cd30d76aaf8860475ae9c7a
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div>Lynn,</div>
<div>=A0=A0 I realize that the Drummond dyno exhaust system is sized to get=
 maximum power at much</div>
<div>higher rpm (9000+) than we use but can you give us approximate tubing =
diameters and lengths</div>
<div>of both the primaries and collector of the Drummond system then pullin=
g from your many years</div>
<div>of &quot;Real World Experience&quot; recommend=A0 tubing diameters and=
 lengths sized for our aircraft</div>
<div>systems (perhaps one for the 2.17 re-drive that spends most of the tim=
e at 5000 to 5500 rpm</div>
<div>then one for the 2.85 re-drive typically used at 6000 to 6500 rpm)....=
..........</div>
<div>=A0</div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div id=3D"signature" class=3D"signature">--<br>Kelly Troyer <br>&quot;Dyke=
 Delta&quot;_13B ROTARY Engine <br>&quot;RWS&quot;_RD1C/EC2/EM2 <br>&quot;M=
istral&quot;_Backplate/Oil Manifold <br></div>
<div class=3D"signature">=A0</div>
<div class=3D"signature">The goal will be the scavenge effect and not actua=
lly pumping up torque at lower RPM. So any system that does not screw up th=
e scavenge effect should be a huge improvement. So one system design should=
 work fine for either reduction ratio.</div>

<div class=3D"signature">=A0</div>
<div class=3D"signature">This all conjecture since I no longer have a dyno.=
 But, I would use 1/7/8&quot; ID primaries of 18&quot; to 22&quot;=A0 into =
a long collector maybe 8&quot; ending at 2 1/4&quot;. Then a smooth transit=
ion to a flex pipe (to allow for engine moving in the mounts) then to the e=
nd of a fixed down tube of 2 3/4&quot; clamped to an engine mount tube with=
 Dutch clamps.=A0</div>

<div class=3D"signature">=A0</div>
<div class=3D"signature">A streamlining cuff over the down tube with air ho=
les for cooling. Then into a Bomb style muffler with the cooling tube throu=
gh the center as seen here on the news group. I would use crossed fish tail=
s so as to look like ordnance. With air along the outside and through the c=
enterline, plus the distance from the engine, muffler failures would be red=
uced. Plus there would be less heat inside the cowl. No dripping liquids wo=
uld be set alight. More room for other items to fit.=A0</div>

<div class=3D"signature">=A0</div>
<div class=3D"signature">If it does fall apart the worst that could happen =
is that it falls off, never to be seen again. Just don&#39;t put your tail =
number on it. I would have the cooling center tube turned through the cente=
rline to disconnect the cooling tube from the exhaust note.=A0=A0</div>

<div class=3D"signature">=A0</div>
<div class=3D"signature">The important part of the build is to get the prim=
ary pipes exactly the same length to the collector. </div>
<div class=3D"signature">=A0</div>
<div class=3D"signature">I can do drawings if you like. </div>
<div class=3D"signature">=A0</div>
<div class=3D"signature">Lynn E. Hanover</div>

--000e0cd30d76aaf8860475ae9c7a--