X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from poplet2.per.eftel.com ([203.24.100.45] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.16) with ESMTP id 3872591 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Fri, 02 Oct 2009 16:25:34 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=203.24.100.45; envelope-from=lendich@aanet.com.au Received: from sv1-1.aanet.com.au (sv1-1.per.aanet.com.au [203.24.100.68]) by poplet2.per.eftel.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B3A717388D for ; Sat, 3 Oct 2009 04:24:57 +0800 (WST) Received: from ownerf1fc517b8 (203.171.92.134.static.rev.aanet.com.au [203.171.92.134]) by sv1-1.aanet.com.au (Postfix) with SMTP id 6F6BCBEC003 for ; Sat, 3 Oct 2009 04:24:56 +0800 (WST) Message-ID: From: "George Lendich" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Activity Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2009 06:24:59 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0036_01CA43F2.3B77E420" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 091001-0, 10/01/2009), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0036_01CA43F2.3B77E420 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bobby, Is that one of Ed's formulas? George ( down under) isn't the inlet face area supposed to be 30% to 35 % of rad face area Based on the data I've collected 26% should give me the correct heat = rejection for climb out at 100 mph. Just have to see if it actually = works. =20 Bobby -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] = On Behalf Of George Lendich Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2009 5:04 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Activity My mistake Bobby, I'm working too quickly and not concentrating = enough. 775 to 800 cu" should be enough rad volume - however isn't the = inlet face area supposed to be 30% to 35 % of rad face area. I suppose your looking for min drag? George (down under)=20 George, Have not changed the heat exchangers. Just the plumbing and = shortened the hose loop by about 18 inches. The increase from 21 to 26% = is the opening size to core face ratio. I have about 272 sq in of core = face and the opens are now 72 sq in. If this test doesn't work I will be = adding a small oil to air exchanger in parallel with the oil \ water = exchanger with dedicated inlet and reducing my Rad inlets back to 21% / = 58 sq in. Actual core size is about 775 not 800 cu in as I stated = earlier. Glad I have the molds for all this stuff. =20 Bobby (still wondering about Tracy's cooling solution) =20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= --- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] = On Behalf Of George Lendich Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2009 2:53 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Activity Bobby, I've seen between 3 to 3.5 cu" per HP, I guess that depends of how = well the cooling is set-up, 800 cu" of Radiator should do fine for = 250hp. If your previous exchanger was 650 cu" for 250 hp it was undersized. = I guessdamated that size form the info you previously provided. George (down under) George, I have 800 cu in of water to air exchangers. No oil to air = exchanger. At 6800 rpm \ 38" MP I'm producing close to 250 hp. But 15 hp = is used to drive the SC. So about 3.2 cu in per HP. The new openings are = about 72 sq in. The goal is to lower the water temps from 200F to 185F = with an OAT of 100F. Oil is running 20F hotter than water. With the 21% = ratio I was only able to maintain 185 HP and keep the oil temps below = 220F \ OAT 95F. It all an experiment.=20 Bobby -------------------------------------------------------------------------= - From: Rotary motors in aircraft = [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of George Lendich Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 7:31 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Activity Bobby, What is your expected HP. How does 26% of core face equate to 3 cu" for every HP i.e. 200 hp =3D 600 cu" George (down under) With any luck I will be back in the air this weekend. I made = several changes including opening my inlets from 21% to 26% of my core = face. Of course it's no longer 105F so will have to extrapolate the = data. Other changes include relocating the battery back to the stock = location, removing 13lbs of tail ballets, new exhaust manifold and belly = mount muffler, CO Detector, exhaust heat for cabin, O2 system, = autopilot, 230 psi water spray for radiator and manifold injection (yet = to be tested), re-plumb the oil to water exchanger and a fresh pilot = bi-annual today.=20 Bobby ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Anyone out there ??.....................<:) ------=_NextPart_000_0036_01CA43F2.3B77E420 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Bobby,
Is that one of Ed's = formulas?
George ( down under)
isn't the inlet=20 face area supposed to be 30% to 35 % of rad  face=20 area
 
Based on the data I've collected 26% should = give me=20 the correct heat rejection for climb out at 100 mph. Just have to see = if it=20 actually works. 
 
Bobby

From: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of George=20 Lendich
Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2009 5:04 = PM
To:=20 Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re:=20 Activity

 My mistake Bobby, = I'm working too=20 quickly and not concentrating enough. 775 to 800 cu" should be enough = rad=20 volume - however isn't the inlet face area supposed to be = 30% to 35=20 % of rad  face area.
I suppose your looking for min = drag?
George (down = under) 
George,
 
Have not changed the heat exchangers. Just = the plumbing=20 and shortened the hose loop by about 18 inches. The increase = from 21 to=20 26% is the opening size to core face ratio. I have about 272 sq = in of=20 core face and the opens are now 72 sq in. If this test doesn't work = I will=20 be adding a small oil to air exchanger in parallel with the oil \ = water=20 exchanger with dedicated inlet and reducing my Rad inlets back to = 21% /=20 58 sq in.  Actual core size is about 775 not 800 cu in as = I stated=20 earlier.
 
Glad I have the molds for all this = stuff. =20
 
Bobby
(still wondering = about Tracy's=20 cooling solution) =20
From: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of George=20 Lendich
Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2009 2:53 = PM
To:=20 Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re:=20 Activity

 Bobby,
I've seen between 3 to 3.5 cu" per = HP, I=20 guess that depends of how well the cooling is set-up, 800 cu" of = Radiator=20 should do fine for 250hp.
If your previous exchanger was 650 = cu" for 250=20 hp it was undersized. I guessdamated that size form the info you = previously=20 provided.
 
George (down under)
George,
 
I have 800 cu in of water to air = exchangers. No oil=20 to air exchanger. At 6800 rpm \ 38" MP I'm producing close to 250 = hp. But=20 15 hp is used to drive the SC. So about 3.2 cu in per HP. The new = openings=20 are about 72 sq in. The goal is to lower the water temps from 200F = to 185F=20 with an OAT of 100F. Oil is running 20F hotter than water. With = the 21%=20 ratio I was only able to maintain 185 HP and keep the oil temps = below 220F=20 \ OAT 95F. It all an experiment.
 
Bobby

From: Rotary motors in = aircraft=20 [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of George=20 Lendich
Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 7:31=20 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: = [FlyRotary]=20 Re: Activity

 Bobby,
What is your expected = HP.
How does 26% of core face equate = to 3 cu" for=20 every HP
 i.e. 200 hp =3D 600 = cu"
George (down under)
With any luck I will be back in the air = this=20 weekend. I made several changes including opening my inlets from = 21% to=20 26% of my core face. Of course it's no longer 105F so will have = to=20 extrapolate the data. Other changes include relocating the = battery back=20 to the stock location, removing 13lbs of tail ballets, new = exhaust=20 manifold and belly mount muffler, CO Detector, exhaust heat for = cabin,=20 O2 system, autopilot, 230 psi water spray for radiator and = manifold=20 injection (yet to be tested), re-plumb the oil to water=20 exchanger and a fresh pilot bi-annual=20 today. 
 
Bobby


Anyone out there ??.....................<:)
 
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