X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from poplet2.per.eftel.com ([203.24.100.45] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.16) with ESMTP id 3861882 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 22 Sep 2009 02:04:18 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=203.24.100.45; envelope-from=lendich@aanet.com.au Received: from sv1-1.aanet.com.au (sv1-1.per.aanet.com.au [203.24.100.68]) by poplet2.per.eftel.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55F5117391B for ; Tue, 22 Sep 2009 14:03:41 +0800 (WST) Received: from ownerf1fc517b8 (203.171.92.134.static.rev.aanet.com.au [203.171.92.134]) by sv1-1.aanet.com.au (Postfix) with SMTP id C3E2BBEC029 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 2009 14:03:38 +0800 (WST) Message-ID: <3AE565CAFDCD4DFFB0B8E8F5B0D85F35@ownerf1fc517b8> From: "George Lendich" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Progress report from Houston Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 16:03:39 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000D_01CA3B9E.3F906660" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 090921-0, 09/21/2009), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01CA3B9E.3F906660 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable To all, I suspected that was the best method after speaking to Bill over the = years. Just exactly how it's done is still not clear to me, however it = is repairable in the event of a leak. I suspect it's heat cycling that = does the damage. George ( down under) George, Mark, and group, The proper way to seal the tubes is with a flexible seal method. The = way to make the seal is a captured full compression o-ring seal. Use a = flanged tube and a full captured o-ring on two sides. You can use a = little JB weld to blend the exterior. The flange is bolted to the = outside. Any potted seal will eventually crack and leak. I don't think = additional plates will prevent that. Bill Jepson Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- From: "George Lendich"=20 Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 14:04:56 +1000 To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Progress report from Houston Mark, I didn't see where the screws were placed, are they at the outer = corners of the plate? George ( down under) George,=20 What I like about the plate is that if it leaks you can remove it, = clean it up, and re-seal it. You can't do that if it is welded in = place. Besides, it is held in place with four 1/4-20 screws. Mark On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 9:03 PM, George Lendich = wrote: Mark, I like that plate, it gives added support to the manifold. It may = be better welded on- then again there's the distortion issue. George ( down under) No, they're plates that fit over the 2" SS tubes and bolt to the = rotor housing. You use RTV to make a seal between the sealing plate, = rotor housing and SS tube. Look closely at the picture I posted, and = then check the web link. The web page shows the entire process start to = finish. http://www.rotaryeng.net/Welded-steel-p-port.html Mark On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 8:39 PM, George Lendich = wrote: Mark, What are PL's sealing plates are these the sides plates he = uses to pressure the sealant? George ( down under) Kelly, Yes, I TIG welded them to the inner liner, then used PL's = sealing plates and Ultra Grey RTV to seal off the coolant. I plan to = pressure test them prior to assembly. Mark On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 2:41 PM, Kelly Troyer = wrote: Mark, Have you made any decisions on the retension/sealing = method for your 20B "P" port inserts ?? -- Kelly Troyer=20 "Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine=20 "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2=20 "Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold=20 -------------- Original message from Mark Steitle = : --------------=20 Bill,=20 I'm not sure what's changed, but my oil temps are up = from what I reported earlier. I routinely see 220-225 on climbout, then = they settle down to 200 in cruise. Maybe I'm producing more hp now, or = maybe the earlier temperature report was not in mid-summer, or possibly = my system is not cooling as well as it did earlier. I'm just glad that = I installed TES o-rings throughout. =20 My cowl flap initially had an aluminum lip, that = protruded into the airstream about 1". This was a quick and dirty test = to see the result. I couldn't open or close it, it was open all the = time. I have since replaced the 1" lip with a servo-controlled door so = I can open/close as desired. When closed it is the same as a stock = cowl. This is very helpful in cooler climates, not so much during = triple-digit Texas summer months. I also added an "airfoil shaped" piece on the firewall = directly above the cowl flap opening. This was done in the hope of = helping coax the heated air out of the cowl. But I didn't detect any = great improvement in cooling. Oh, well. Next thing I plan on adding is = small air dams on each end of the flap door. The idea here is to = promote more efficient airflow out of the cowl flap. I've heard that = these make a big difference. We'll see. =20 If you are considering installing a cowl flap, you may = want to consider locating it on the side, or possibly install one on = each side, back near the firewall. This would allow you to make the = opening larger, and this location may be in a lower pressure area than = the bottom, especially during climbout. Just a thought. Cooling is still marginal in the Texas heat, and it will = be worse with the new P-port 20B engine. So, I may be forced to make = some major changes to get the more powerful engine to cool, or else be = forced to throttle back during climbout. I've been considering = relocating the radiator from under the engine to the cool side of the = engine (fore/aft). This would allow me to use a slightly larger = radiator. It would clean up the plumbing and significantly shorten the = cooling lines too. =20 No, I haven't experienced SAG. But then I'm running = Renesis type irridium spark plugs. I'm at 143 hours now. Personally, I = won't use anything else. =20 Mark ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01CA3B9E.3F906660 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
To all,
I suspected that was the best method = after speaking=20 to Bill over the years. Just exactly how it's done is still not clear to = me,=20 however it is repairable in the event of a leak. I suspect it's  = heat=20 cycling that does the damage.
George ( down under)
George,=20 Mark, and group,
The proper way to seal the tubes is with a = flexible seal=20 method. The way to make the seal is a captured full compression o-ring = seal.=20 Use a flanged tube and a full captured o-ring on two sides. You can = use a=20 little JB weld to blend the exterior. The flange is bolted to the = outside. Any=20 potted seal will eventually crack and leak. I don't think additional = plates=20 will prevent that.
Bill Jepson

Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

From: "George Lendich"
Date: = Tue, 22=20 Sep 2009 14:04:56 +1000
To: Rotary motors in=20 aircraft<flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Subject: = [FlyRotary] Re:=20 Progress report from Houston

Mark,
I didn't see where the screws were = placed, are=20 they at the outer corners of the plate?
George ( down under)
George,
 
What I like about the plate is that if it leaks you = can=20 remove it, clean it up, and re-seal it.  You can't do that if = it is=20 welded in place.  Besides, it is held in place with four 1/4-20 = screws.
 
Mark

On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 9:03 PM, George = Lendich <lendich@aanet.com.au> = wrote:
 Mark,
I like that plate, it gives added = support to=20 the manifold. It may be better welded on- then again there's the=20 distortion issue.
George ( down under)
No, they're plates that fit over the 2" SS tubes and bolt = to the=20 rotor housing.  You use RTV to make a seal between the = sealing=20 plate, rotor housing and SS tube.  Look closely at the = picture I=20 posted, and then check the web link.  The web page shows = the entire=20 process start to finish.  http://www.rotaryeng.net/Welded-steel-p-port.html
 
Mark

On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 8:39 PM, George = Lendich=20 <lendich@aanet.com.au> wrote:
Mark,
What are PL's sealing = plates are=20 these the sides plates he uses to pressure the = sealant?
George ( down = under)
Kelly,
 
Yes, I TIG welded them to the inner liner, then used = PL's=20 sealing plates and Ultra Grey RTV to seal off the = coolant.  I=20 plan to pressure test them prior to assembly.
 
Mark

On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 2:41 PM, = Kelly Troyer=20 <keltro@att.net> wrote:
Mark,
  Have you made any decisions on the = retension/sealing=20 method for your 20B "P" port inserts ??
--
Kelly Troyer
"Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine =
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"Mistral"_Backplate/Oil = Manifold
--------------=20 Original message from Mark Steitle <msteitle@gmail.com>: = --------------=20

Bill,
 
I'm not sure what's changed, but my oil temps are = up from=20 what I reported earlier.  I routinely see 220-225 = on=20 climbout, then they settle down to 200 in cruise.  = Maybe=20 I'm producing more hp now, or maybe the earlier = temperature=20 report was not in mid-summer, or possibly my system is = not=20 cooling as well as it did earlier.  I'm just glad = that=20 I installed TES o-rings throughout.  =
My cowl flap initially had an aluminum lip,=20 that protruded into the airstream about = 1".  This=20 was a quick and dirty test to see the = result.  I=20 couldn't open or close it, it was open all the = time.  I=20 have since replaced the 1" lip with a = servo-controlled door=20 so I can open/close as desired.  When closed it is = the same=20 as a stock cowl.  This is very helpful in cooler = climates,=20 not so much during triple-digit Texas summer = months.
 
I also added an "airfoil shaped" piece on the = firewall=20 directly above the cowl flap opening.  This was=20 done in the hope of helping coax the = heated air=20 out of the cowl.  But I didn't detect any = great=20 improvement in cooling.  Oh, well.  Next = thing I=20 plan on adding is small air dams on each end of the flap = door.  The idea here is to promote more efficient = airflow=20 out of the cowl flap.  I've heard that these make a = big=20 difference.  We'll see.  =20
 
If you are considering installing a cowl flap, you = may want=20 to consider locating it on the side, = or possibly=20 install one on each side, back near the = firewall. =20 This would allow you to make the = opening larger, and=20 this location may be in a lower pressure = area=20 than the bottom, especially during climbout.  = Just a=20 thought.
 
Cooling is still marginal in the Texas heat,=20 and it will be worse with the new P-port 20B=20 engine.  So, I may be forced to make some major = changes to=20 get the more powerful engine to cool, or else be = forced to=20 throttle back during climbout.  I've been=20 considering relocating the radiator from under the = engine=20 to the cool side of the engine (fore/aft).  = This would=20 allow me to use a slightly larger radiator.  It = would clean=20 up the plumbing and significantly shorten the cooling = lines=20 too.   
No, I haven't experienced SAG.  But then I'm = running=20 Renesis type irridium spark plugs.  I'm at 143 = hours=20 now.  Personally, I won't use anything else.  =
 
Mark
=
 

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